How come C3C is more difficult than vanilla?

[Crakie]

I don't know if it actually is more difficult, but I have yet to win a game on Demigod or higher. In vanilla Civ3 I was doing ok on emperor and deity. Just to see if I still got it, I played a PTW game with the Ottomans on Emperor and got a 1500 AD domination win on a standard sized continents map without too much effort.

My usual strategy is to secure a decently sized Empire in the early stages, then wait until Replaceable parts and clean up. In Conquests, my Empire is generally smaller than I was used to and I rarely see opportunities to expand. Thus, I do not make enough money to keep up in tech and cannot keep up with the military strength of the AI. Usually, I give up before Replaceable parts as the AI is already building tanks and mech inf by then, and massive amounts of them I might add.

Any thoughts/ideas on what makes Conquests so different from PTW and Civ3?

 

[nullspace]

The thing that gave me trouble when I started conquests was that it costs a lot more to buy techs from the AI. In PTW and Vanilla, you could be in last place technologically, and buy techs that everyone knew for dirt-cheap. Or you could go to war, take a few cities, and get several techs for peace. Since techs are valued higher now, neither strategy works efficiently any more. It seems like the only way to keep up is trade tech for tech at every opportunity: buy a tech that at least one AI doesn't have, and then sell that tech to all AI's that don't have it. This is harder in general because you have to keep up with the pack, and have enough capital to buy the first tech.

 

[Gengis Khan]

There's a few things that make it initially tougher especially at higher levels.
-The inability of GLs to rush wonders. This makes warfare which we're infinatly better at then the AI not as profitable. Which goes into ........
-SGLs rushing wonders. Getting an early tech lead at higher levels(or even a single tech first) doesn't happen very often, having that Scientific AI Civ get lucky & manage to rush the Pyramids & Collossus very early in the game makes for a tough opponent.
-Min research gambits going from 40 to 50 turns. Those 10 turns are often the difference between being the first Civ to get the tech and having everyone else own it by the time you get it.

This is just a few of them, but it adds up quick.

 

[sorky]

I think it's tougher with C3C... 6th game on deity without a victory for me ^^
I win one on emperor relatively easy but deity is a very big leap :à/

I think i'm going to win the 7th ^^
Tiny map, 3civ + me, 5CC.. I am always behind in tech but I managed to take the GL when I had only 5-6 tech -> techno advanced have said the advisor
oki 1 turn with 6 cities..
I razed England else 5 cities before trading peace for 2 other cities (razed too), same for Byzance. Holland declared war on me after that... with a big military
They took one of my city (lux + my only salpeter..) wih cavalry... I was on Physic.. but 2 turns after I re-took him (after pillage his salpeter)
Now I'm on the way to is capital for crush him... He can't road his salpeter near my border so... not finished but it's on the good way i think

The trick with the GL saved me this game, without that it would be another defeat..

 

[zerksees]

I would not call it more difficult. I would call it different. What made it seem more difficult for me the first game was that I had to unlearn what worked so well in PTW. It is about 90% the same game but those subtle differences require adjustments to stay ahead of the AI.

There are so many ways C3C makes the game easier than vanilla. You just need to find them and recognize them as such.

I am crushing the AI on C3C 1.15 emperor in my current game - and planning to play demigod next.

 

[dgfred]

Several good points by Gengis, . It also seems the barbs are
tougher than Vanilla and the AIs seem to play better and war better . They seem to work better together also
but still end up starting wars against each other too often and for no apparent
reason .

 

[Smellincoffee]

..,but still end up starting wars against each other too often and for no apparent
reason

The reason is money and power. If the AI has enough of both and his neighbor is missing power, then there will be war.

 

[sorky]

I'd not played PTW between vanilla & C3C but I have many problems to take cities from AI :à/
Artillery doesn't kill anymore citizens (in my little experience...) so defenders have always 50% or 100% bonus defense... It was a little bit easy with vanilla but here, it's very tough ^^

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

I'd not played PTW between vanilla & C3C but I have many problems to take cities from AI :à/
Artillery doesn't kill anymore citizens (in my little experience...) so defenders have always 50% or 100% bonus defense... It was a little bit easy with vanilla but here, it's very tough ^^

I played a game on regent level trhough until I won a 20K cultural victory in 2040 (I could've won with a space race victory ten turns prior to that, but I've grown tired of winning all my games that way), and both when I used my heavy artillery batteries against the AI, as well as when the AI bombed my cities with his bombers (until I built SAM batteries in all my cities and put a quick stop to that ) sometimes citizens would get killed or improvements blown up. Best bet for taking an enemy city in C3C is to use the Stack of Doom (tm), with at least 12-20 units or more (depending on the expected level of enemy resistance), and try not to overextend your reach or, to put it another way, don't go after another AI city until you've replaced at least 75% of the units you've lost and healed all the survivors of the first battle.

On a tech related note, I've found that at times it's actually easier (and, ironically, cheaper) to steal tech from the AI. In Vanilla Civ3, the espionage system was so jacked up that I had a 100% failure rate with all espionage missions, while the AI seemed to have a 100% success rate with theirs. Now, in Conquests, I've played enough to know I at least have half a chance of succeding at any given spy mission. One case in point is during the Age of Discovery conquest, I was playing the Spanish, and I managed to have my DIPLOMATS (not spies, mind you) steal the Enslavement tech from the Aztecs. What makes that rather remarkable is that the tech is a high-cost, cultural flavored non-tradeable tech, yet I stole it. Of course, it cost me over 1200 gold to do that, but it was well worth it once I then researched the easier Ballgames tech and started building Ball courts in all my larger cities where malcontentedness was becoming problematic

Basically I haven't found it really much harder or easier than Vanilla Civ3, just different and overall more enjoyable. Then again, I never play these games with a strategy set in stone, but adapt as circumstances warrant.

 

[Crakie]

I had the feeling that I documented myself reasonably well on the changes made in Conquests. But still, I am having trouble adapting to them. Since I don't have the time to play all that much, I guess a succession game of some sort would be a good way to get the hang of things.

 

[Vizurok]

Navy, the AI handles the ships better, it makes more interesting naval battles.

 

[Obi-Zahn Kenobi]

On C3C, Demigod is equivalent to Deity in Vanilla and Play the World. C3C Deity and Sid are harder levels.