1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

How did different sponsors work out for you ?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Prophet Skeram, Nov 16, 2014.

  1. GeoModder

    GeoModder Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    7,512
    Well, for me the game is not about civs in space, but going beyond Earth. IOW, I feel its useless to compare too much of the game mechanics to CiV.
     
  2. kirbdog

    kirbdog King

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    898
    2 Trade Routes / Better Spies / Free Slavic Tech Guy / Free French Tech Lady are superior. They can also play a little different. If the other four were also made to play a little different, we'd have less consensus about the leaders not playing differently... because right now about half of them do that (semi-decently) and half of them not at all really.
     
  3. Prophet Skeram

    Prophet Skeram Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2012
    Messages:
    96
    Location:
    Ahn' Quiraj
    Well, I personally feel like PAC and the KP play a lot differently from the "tech sponsors" aswell.

    PAC lets you actually grab quite a few good wonders on higher difficulties and lets you improve a ton of tiles with relatively few workers, which just feels great, imho.

    The KP let you grab all the land (and good sea tiles) without much effort and you'll rarely have to fear that the AI will snag important tiles close to your cities just because you were low on energy.
     
  4. Ikael

    Ikael King

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Messages:
    873
    My favourite is Elodie and her Franco-Iberia because it is one of the few UA that rewards a certain style of gameplay other than being an uber-bland, imagination-killer % bonus a la Brazilia or PAU.

    The only problem with it is that yes, it is a little tad unbalanced, the best gameplay balance is asymetrical, so it's a question of lifting up the rest of the factions rather than administering a nerf to this particular one.
     
  5. bovinespy

    bovinespy Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    310
    Similarities? Sure. But I think you're downplaying the uniqueness of the civs in CiV(BTS) vis-a-vis the sponsors/cargo/etc. in CBE. Three specific aspects come to mind:

    1) In CiV, all the civs have two traits out of a total of eleven, not just one. The various combinations make significant changes in how each civ plays. For example, Catherine's CRE/FIN leads to different strategies than, say, Mansa Musa's SPI/FIN. Sure, they'll both try and cottatge spam (FIN), but CRE and SPI traits lead to differing approaches to gameplay.

    2) In CiV, all the civs have both a UU and a UB. There is no analogue at all like this in CBE.

    3) In CiV, all the civs start with two techs, but the individual techs vary from civ to civ. In CBE, everyone starts with the same tech.
     
  6. m15a

    m15a Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,471
    Speaking of having two traits, I feel like the issue has less to do with the sponsors (although they could be a little more interesting) and more to do with the colonists. Ignoring balance issues, it seems like the colonist benefits don't really support different strategies as much as they could. From the story perspective, choosing different colonists could have a huge affect on strategy, too. (For those that have read Foundation, think about how different Seldon's two colonies played out even though they came from the same sponsor/leader.)

    Then, you'd feel like you had two traits, plus a couple early-game bonuses from the other options.
     
  7. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,102
    Location:
    In orbit
    I usually count 2-3 tiles to any given resource, whether I get Kavitha or no. The way you are presenting it, Kavitha gives a huge advantage. This is not so. The basic requirement for any player is to get his or her economy going, up research, and stay healthy expanding.

    After a number of games carefully picking my presets, I am now playing full random. Why? Because when you get the game basics I just mentioned down, it doesn't really matter what sponsor or presets you picked. Instead of the advertized 'infinite replayability' you get infinite repeatability. I don't agree with your conclusion that if you pick your presets carefully you get 'a real feel of the game'. The fact that this 'feel of the game' depends entirely on the presets picked already indicates that the game has no such feel of itself. Unlike SMAC, where it really mattered what faction you picked, because that determined your presets. Currently the game is just very barebones. Like the developers couldn't decide on presets for factions, and because of this thought 'Hey, we'll let the players decide for themselves'. Now, some players may like that, but personally I find that makes the game somewhat...bland. Unfinished, if you will. Much the same as CiV was at first release with numberless bugs that any decent playtesting would have flushed out.
     
  8. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,526
    Agent327:

    I'm not sure I entirely understand what you said.

    Based on what you're saying, it's like you want for there to be less choices, not more. Certainly, there was that sentiment in Civ IV that argued that there oughtn't be leaders to represent every trait combination, but that eventually went away. There's still some restriction in that you can't pair every trait combination with every UU.

    I don't get the feeling that Artists are equal to Engineers are equal to Refugees in that each choice basically results in the same game. Certainly, you would be hard-pressed to find anyone willing to agree with that, I think.
     
  9. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,058
    You pick the Slavic or French and are crazy OP.

    PAC and Poly are pretty good at playing normal, the other civs are very specialized or horrible.

    What makes a really big difference is starting with artists because they are currently so strong that all other choices are null and void. Tectonic scanner with titanium(strategic balance) and a worker is also very strong.
     
  10. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,526
    They are only null and void in the same sense that playing Financial in CivIV makes every other trait choice null and void. Just because a choice isn't the best one doesn't mean it's pointless to play it.
     
  11. Lucius_

    Lucius_ King

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages:
    806
    I think my favorites are PAC and Polystralia. I like KP but her ability isn't all that great. FI is interesting as well but is limited to a certain playstyle.

    IMO, Brasillia really sucks. SF requires a very specific strategy to be good, moreso than FI, which I don't like.

    PAU is meh and I suck at spying so ARC wasn't as exciting as I'd hoped.
     
  12. Carl_Bar

    Carl_Bar Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2014
    Messages:
    49
    PAC are absolutely fairly strong, won my first game as them, it's not just the quick workers as such either though, it's how you combine that with other stuff, especially how easy getting road routes in is. Really the OP hit this on the head.

    African Union, on it's own in a perfect world this bonus would be middling. I played a game where thanks to my drop location relative to everyone else and some luck on a few things i was able to grow my capital at an average of 1 pop per 6 turn all the way to 40 odd pop before i gave up that game. In combination with hardcore food spam from fully maxed farms it's decent. The problem really is that farms are not an awesome improvement whilst gens really are by comparison so it ends up little used as gen spam is an inherently low pop low growth, and very broad low health strategy.

    Brazillia, leaving aside just how many late game units don;t benefit from the trait offensively the bigger issue is that 10% just isn't noticeable in any really decisive way, it doesn't stand out at all under any circumstances i saw.

    KP would be nice if there was a reason to spread your cities out or to go vertical in a big way so a city can use a lot of tiles at once. As it is there's no use for either so you end up not caring about the territory grab factor. Faster outposts is very nice but it's just not as powerful as it should be.

    Elodie, is an arkward one. That free tech can take a while coming if you manipulate for low culture income, but generally getting a T2 tech before you get the freebie is tough in most situations, doable but tough. Which means outside of very rare circumstances you have to skip out on all your other T1 techs bar the minimum needed for the T2 you need before the bonus pop's. You end up compromising pretty hardcore to make it work. And that carries some major downsides of it's own. Use it in a normal fashion and you end up getting your T2 early, which whilst powerful in most cases, isn't game breaking. And the time to get the second is so overly long you can forget ever getting anything really vital with it. And you'll never see a third before the game ends.

    Slavs are basically elodie but with better control so you can guarantee that first free tech when you really need it, but you gimp yourself even harder because you'l almost always have a solar collector you have to hold back on.


    In terms of balance suggestions:

    PAC: Leave them be.

    African Union: strip the healthy requirement and dd a large percentage food carryover bonus, (20-30%)

    Elodie: Reduce the number of virtues to 7, that makes the first come a lot sooner making it virtually impossible to abuse whilst making the second and third more useful. Alternatively make it 5/15 and every 5 thereafter, does the same but with even more force.

    Slav's need somthing to make holding onto that sat for so long a bit more of an issue IMO.

    Brazillia: really have no suggestion's, it's inherently an issue with creating a military bonus that's always handy without being utterly broken.
     
  13. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,102
    Location:
    In orbit
    That would be correct. With the current setup it's the player that decides 'flavour' rather than the game itself.

    That holds true for every preset, including the type of pioneers you pick: you can mix them up any way you want. So where's the flavour? There is basically no limit to what you can preset, and this is what makes the game bland in my opinion.

    What the game aims for, obviously, is for the player to pick the presets he likes (as in the previous post). Now, does that make for infinite replayability? I think not.

    It's been 2 or 3 weeks and I've never had this with any Civ game, but I'm already waiting for the expansion (ignoring the numerous bugs) to see if that will add some personality to the game.
     
  14. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,526
    I think the personality is there if you want it to be. After all, no one is preventing you from creating a bunch of presets that you will use to the exception of all else. Frankly, I played SMAC without sound or video, so I didn't see any of the Project Videos when I played it long ago. I tend to skip Wonder animations, too, in mainline Civs.

    I think the game's flavor can be expressed more strongly with more of these videos and animations.
     
  15. sprang

    sprang Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    197
    PAC: My favorite faction. Balanced without being broken.
    :scan: But, fer crying out loud, change that eye-gouging pink, plz
    PAU is currently self-defeating. Culture is so much more important than food in the early game, so I'm not sure how good the growth bonus gets before its worth taking.
    :rolleyes: Oh, you finally got healthy? Here's some growth to get rid of that pesky "10% culture" - which is actually 30% of your culture because 2.8 rounds to 2. :mad:
    Elodie: Make it every 7, but limit the free techs to LEAF techs only, so you can't jump a tech ring.
    Slavs are broken twice.
    1) Free higher-tier tech is too powerful. Limit this to Leaf Tech only.
    2) Satellite times need to be fixed - faster Miasma Repellers / Condensors please, and Weather Controllers / Orbital Fabs need to spawn more resources if they last longer. Usually that's the main reason I'm launching them so the Slav ability is actually hurting me.
    C'mon Capital Oil for that busted quest! Damn... more geothermal.:mad:
    Beats me, but then I don't warmonger much and never played the military factions much in Civ, unless the UU/UB let me turtle more effectively. Agreed tho, 10% is too weak. That kind of bonus is only good in mirror combats as a tie-breaker. Sure it might be nice for a multiplayer edge, but you don't need it to beat the AI. At the same time, the alien unit strengths aren't mirrors of yours so 10% doesn't get you over any combat thresholds.

    Maybe specialize it: +25% vs. aliens? +1 unit vision? +20% unit production, or -25% unit purchase cost? Colonists invulnerable to aliens (like purity 1 rovers)?
     
  16. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,102
    Location:
    In orbit
    That's not flavour, but the exact opposite. Which is my point. I've now switched to playing with SMAC mod. Plenty of flavour in there.
     
  17. CraigMak

    CraigMak The Borg

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,058
    The free tech sponsors are massively broken and op..

    PAC & Poly are good.

    ARC is OK

    The others are considerably bad.

    They meant for you to be able to tailor your "civ" to your liking. The sponsor is only one of many options you can pick. Unfortunately some of the options are so over powered that the others are not usable in comparison. This makes you pigeon holed into certain choices every time or be weak.
     
  18. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,526
    The way I see it, choosing different options at the start can be a way to jack up the difficulty. I mean, with so many players complaining about the ease of winning at Apollo, you'd think they'd at least try playing something a little more challenging, right?

    Brasilia can actually do Scavenging considerably better than the other factions. Their Marines can actually directly face down and kill Siege Worms, which yields a hefty chunk of Science.

    The land-grabbing KP is fun. It doesn't directly add to your Science the way Poly does, but that's kind of the point.
     
  19. Kaigen

    Kaigen Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2013
    Messages:
    142
    If you aggressively steal science with ARC's faster spies it's easily the equivalent of one or two free techs (more if you prioritize buildings that provide extra covert agents). The difference between that and FI or the Slaves is you actually feel like you're working for it. :D
     
  20. Pietato

    Pietato Platonic Perfection

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Messages:
    2,146
    Location:
    New Zealand
    I love the Kavithan Protectorate's bonus, but I despise the faction.

    Just thought I would mention that.
     

Share This Page