How do first strikes work? Are they good?

[Bjorn190]

Hi

I know that first strike chances allow for a chance to do damage before the combat starts. I know that first strikes allow for that too. But I always wondered how important is this? Is 1 first strike worth as much as 33% of the fight, because I mean, its supposed to be 3 fighting rounds right?

This is extremely imortant info if u play as china, as a cho ko nu can come out of the city at level 3 with drill 3, giving it 2 first strikes + 1 additional 1st strike and 3 first strike chances, totalying 3-6 first strikes!!

So I was thinking, just how powerful are these first strikes, and should I chose drill, or combat promotion?

 

[_alphaBeta_]

In general, first strikes are most effective for combat between two units that are evenly matched. It can help tip the outcome in your favor. If nothing else, it will cancel out the first strikes of your opponent leveling the playing field. Very useful for combat against first striking city defenders.

Don't ask me what the difference is between a first strike and first strike chance though. I still don't get how exactly that works.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Combat Explained will cover the mechanics of first strikes. Shorthand, it isn't really "damage before combat starts". If you think of a first strike as a round of combat where your unit is invulnerable to damage, you'll have a more accurate picture of what is going on.

There's also a bug in the 1.61 combat calculator that causes units with first strikes to be selected when there are better defenders available. I didn't have Warlords when I confirmed the bug, so it may have been fixed.

First strikes are nice to have when you are facing lots of inferior but inbound opponents - it gives your King of the Hill Longbow excellent scoring chances when he is defending too many times in a single round (see the Ironman challenge).

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Don't ask me what the difference is between a first strike and first strike chance though. I still don't get how exactly that works.

A first strike chance is a chance that you will get a first strike. In other words, at the beginning of combat, your unit gets a diceroll, and will be awarded somewhere between 0 and max chances additional first strikes for this combat only.

In other words, with two first strike chances, your unit is equally likely to get 0, 1, or 2 first strikes.

The combat calculator, when predicting your chances of winning the fight, essentially averages your chances of winning with each number of strikes that you might get.

Thus the notation 4-7 first strikes indicates that you are equally likely to be starting the combat with 4,5,6, or 7 rounds of combat in which your unit is immune to damage.

Give yourself a brownie if you can find an explanation of that anywhere in the the manual or civlopedia.

 

[_alphaBeta_]

Yeah this is something that needs to be explained better in documentation with the game.

Can you walk me through the drill promotions then? Let's assume a unit that doesn't start with any first strikes, but can get drill promotions.

Drill 1 says "+1 First Strike Chance"
So this means you'll have either 0 or 1 first strikes when combat begins?

Drill II says "+1 First Strike"
Since this is cumulative, the unit now will have 1 definite first strike and 1 additional chance. Therefore, it will have either 1 or 2 first strikes when combat begins?

Drill III says "+2 First Strike Chances"
Since this is cumulative, the unit now will have 1 definite first strike and 3 additional chances. Therefore, it will have between 1 and 4 first strikes when combat begins?

Drill IV says "+2 First Strikes"
Since this is cumulative, the unit now will have 3 definite first strikes and 3 additional chances. Therefore, it will have between 3 and 6 first strikes when combat begins?

Now, on top of all of that, there's no guarantee that damage will be done during a first strike, correct? It's simply an invulnerable round for you?

 

[malekithe]

So I was thinking, just how powerful are these first strikes, and should I chose drill, or combat promotion?

Most of the time, go for combat. Drill promotions are handy when you are expecting a unit to fight and win against multiple opponents in a single turn (or without a chance to heal completely). If you're only going to be fighting one combat and then resting, you're always better off with a combat promotion than a low-level drill promotion.

 

[DaveMcW]

50-50 odds:
Attacker dies after 5 hits
Defender dies after 5 hits

51-49 odds:
Attacker dies after 6 hits
Defender dies after 5 hits

So if the odds are slightly against you, a combat promotion can swing them in your favor and get you 2 "free" strikes!

 

[NKVD]

the hardest thing in civ to me is to choose between +10% strenght or the first strike...

 

[ace94d]

I like to go Combat-First Strike-Combat-First Strike. Adding Speciality's needed.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Can you walk me through the drill promotions then?

Looks to me as though you have it.

Now, on top of all of that, there's no guarantee that damage will be done during a first strike, correct? It's simply an invulnerable round for you?

Right. If a unit with three first strikes faces a unit with five first strikes, then the first unit is immune to damage until round 4, and the second unit is immune to damange until round 6.

The rounds where the immunity is used to avoid damage do not appear in the combat log, which makes it a bit harder to see what's actually going on during play. If I ran the zoo, first strikes would instead affect the damage calculation, so you would see things like "archer hit for 0 (100/100)", and could get a better sense for how it all works in practice.

 

[UncleJJ]

Looks to me as though you have it.



Right. If a unit with three first strikes faces a unit with five first strikes, then the first unit is immune to damage until round 4, and the second unit is immune to damange until round 6.

The rounds where the immunity is used to avoid damage do not appear in the combat log, which makes it a bit harder to see what's actually going on during play. If I ran the zoo, first strikes would instead affect the damage calculation, so you would see things like "archer hit for 0 (100/100)", and could get a better sense for how it all works in practice.

I believe that only one side can have first strikes in a combat. If both sides could have first strikes then the they are cancelled equally from both sides until only one (or neither) side is left with them. So in your example of 3 versus 5, that simply becomes 2 first strikes for the one that originally had 5.

 

[CivDude86]

Combat1>Drill1 but Combat4<Drill4
With a advantage you can take them out before they can even attack. But remember some mounted units and flanking2 gives FS immunity.