How do I get it all done before 2020?

[Exsanguination]

How do you win the game before 2020? Or at least get lots of points? I just finished a very successful game (for me...), but I had only like 300 pts and no military... my science was beginning to struggle as well... (but I was making 420 gold per turn and only using 170!) So...?

 

[starlifter]

I'm not sure of your play level, map size, experience, but I'm assuming you're a relatively new Civ II player. The literal way to win the game is by landing the first Spaceship, or by eliminating all the AI civs.

Assuming you knew that, the most important factor in a big score is lots of big, happy cities. Happy citizens count 2 points each, while content ones ans specialists count only one point.

The way to get big, as well as rich and advanced in science, is Democracy. There are other ways too, but none are as powerful as a Democracy, so that's what I'll talk about.

Actually, I'm going to link you to other discussions about this exact subject... Getting big, rich, and smart... while still whooping up on some AI civs... These links may get you started, and have more views than just mine, too:


Trade:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5793&highlight=democracy

Gold and Science details:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6033&highlight=democracy

Democracy vs. Communism discussion:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=790&highlight=Democracy

My "Power Democracy":
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=854&highlight=democracy

Democracy at War:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=843&highlight=democracy

Here is an ongoing succession game, with download examples:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4510&highlight=democracy

Here is a GOTM6 link, with download examples:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5838&highlight=democracy

Here is a GOTM8 link, with download examples:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5145&highlight=democracy



Feel free to ask more specific questions... ther are a lot of good civ players milling around in these threads .

 

[Exsanguination]

Alright... here are two new questions I have after readnig those posts (thanks dude):

I build usually 8 to 10 cities by 1 AD (apparently thats pathetic). I could conceiveably attain 20 to 30 cities before 1 AD, but I always end up with civil disorder (esp. since you have to screw around with tax rates). Since I usually don't have the greatest science until then, I can't build Mike's or JS's. 1) How do I get science improvents at 1 every 2 turns (like one dude was talking about), and 2) how do I supervise 30 or more cities? Its all too mind-boggling for me....


Oh yea... I know lots about the game now (after using these forums...); I'm not totally new to the game (a couple months...). anyways, thanks a lot

 

[jc011]

first, what difficulty level, the higher up, the harder to keep citizens happy. When going into democracy, you should at least have colosseums, banks, temples, and a cathedral. You should also try to concentrate on getting more happy wonders, like shakespear, J.s and M.c. This will greatly improve happiness. Sometimes in my democracy, my luxuries rate will be at zero because of all the happy wonders i have.

About science, you should try the SSC strategy, when i implemented this into my game my science output was a lot greater. to build a SSC(super science city) just build colossus, observatory, newtons college, university, library, superhighways, seti, all in a single city, this way, your science from this city should be around 700-1000. This will greatly enhance your science rate.. If you can build the Adam Smiths, you can lower taxes because some of the expenses are already taken care of and you can therefore increase your science rate.

I usually have only about 10 cities in my king game at 1 ad. I should probably expand faster too. but at the end of my game, i will have 14-20 cities that i've built, i never fight so i don't take over cities. It isn't hard to supervise the cities. Just keep building improvements they need and be sure to irrigate the squares around the cities for faster growth and more production.

Just keep playing the game and everything should come toghether

(this must be the longest message i've ever posted how does starlifter do it? )

 

[Exsanguination]

I usually play on Prince or King. But I have encountered yet another problem: By the time my second settler is built, its like 2700 BC!!! How the heck do I get 10 cities by 2400 BC?

 

[starlifter]

1) How do I get science improvents at 1 every 2 turns (like one dude was talking about), and 2) how do I supervise 30 or more cities? Its all too mind-boggling for me..

You cannot do 1 every 2 turns at any old time. You have to prepare, and I do it mainly with an SSC and caravans in mid game. Somewhere around Corporation-Automobile, I like to push for 1 advance per turn, and sometime around Computers, hit 2 advances per turn to finish off the tech tree.

How? The SSC, Democracy, and trade routes + trade bonuses. You have to make a steady supply of freight, and deliver it to the best locations. To get the most value, it is essential to have big cities (like about 20+) with all trade enhancing available improvements. In a republic, a courthouse is a trade enhancer in most cities. Sewer systems enhance trade... without it, a city is stuck at size 12.

Planning trade and fast science does not suddenly begin at RR or Industrialization... it is cumulative effort, and begins with the very first city you found. One technique is to use Monarchy/Communism/Fundy to build the infrastructure to support a democracy (mkt, tmpl, bank, stk, Michelangelo, JS Bach, courthouse). Get into Democracy by about Corp. Build Cure for Cancer. Then SHs and Airports.

You have to look at your exact science output (see trade advisor), and cost (multiply turns per advance times science output). Deliver caravans/freight to boost your science (see sci advisor) until you can complet an advance on that turn.

Later, when you can jack your science up to 60 or 70 or 80% and get one advance per turn, then ALSO deliver enough freight each and every turn to bring the science advisor to a full bar. This will give 2 advances per turn.

2) how do I supervise 30 or more cities?

Get into democracy and raise luxuries (also build mkts, etc.). Or use Fundamentalism if you cannot yet control an young democracy .

Personally, I go Monarchy ---> Republic ----> Democracy (no more govt changes after Democracy!). Sometimes, once in a while, I use Communism instead of Republic.

 

[jc011]

Originally posted by Exsanguination
I usually play on Prince or King. But I have encountered yet another problem: By the time my second settler is built, its like 2700 BC!!! How the heck do I get 10 cities by 2400 BC?

you have to build them quickly.

The way i do it is first, find a city on the spot, build defender, after defender build the settler, settler goes out finds another city. builds defender while first city builds temple or colossus,
after the second defender is built, build another settler, keep doing this and you will have many cities by 1 ad.

 

[SINISTER1974]

Everything depends on what size map and what difficulty level. Build fast-dont be one of those fools that isolate themselves-be ahead in tech all the time-always defend your cities well and key points to your civ on the map-build a lot of cities but many that are high in production ( that will help when in war or for spaceship race) Your score is based on many things-if you dont use that your score wont be high.And key thing is to never stop building-more cities =more pop,science,trade, and strike fear into your opponent. Use caravans a lot-to build trade, wonders, and to raise your city pop fast. When i play i always build 3 cities next to good food sources and after they reach certain pop-all i do is build caravans with them-1 every 2 rd-and build my cities up-turn ur non-active civillians into tax collectors or scientists.
SINISTER

 

[Sodak]

After your first city is settled, build a defender if you don't have one from a hut. Your next unit should be a settler - do not worry about food or trade, max shield production. You cannot disband your capital if it is your only city, so waiting until it is size 2 is not necessary.

Quick early expansion can be aided by partially rush-buying units. For example, if you have 5 shields accumulated after one turn, buy the remaining 5 for a warrior for 11 gold. Switch production to phalanx. Buy it for another 25 gold and switch to settler. (If you've tipped huts and have enough gold, buy an archer first) The fewer shields you buy, the cheaper the price per shield - Use your circumstance to decide how much you buy. In the case of buying thru phalanx, you've cut three turns off the build time for 36 gold. Thru archer, five turns for 61 gold. If you rushbuy every other turn (build five, buy five every turn), you cut off four turns for 44 gold.

DaveV at Apolyton compared various starting strategies. The ideal (if your goal is "more cities quickly") is to build a settler the turn each city grows to size 2. The difference is large in the long run. With exploration bringing in gold from huts, this can be done very effectively.

As an aside, if you have one size 8 city, you work 9 land tiles. Four size 2 cities work 12 tiles - you get more return for the same number of citizens. Once the cities grow, this becomes less significant, as larger ones will have improvements that close the gap. But in the early going, it makes a difference.

 

[el_kalkylus]

I usually play on Prince or King. But I have encountered yet another problem: By the time my second settler is built, its like 2700 BC!!! How the heck do I get 10 cities by 2400 BC?

You have 32 turns to make it. Here is one example how.

Let's say you start with 2 settlers beside a hut, you pop the hut, and get a chariot (1 turn), and one settler build a city on the spot. Then if the settler is on a river you can found a new city the next turn (2 moves away), so you have 2 cities and 1 chariot to start with. The chariot can go 5 (unexplored squares) on the river and pop a hut on the 6th , and you get another city! So you have 3 cities in 2 turns. Every city start to build a settler (let's say they all have 2 shields each and gains 2 food/turn ), and it takes 17 turns to build the settler. Meanwhile the chariot explores for more huts, finds one on the 4th turn and get another city. If it takes 4 turns to found a new city with the settlers (if you have land for it), then you will have 5 cities by turn (17+4=) 21, 7 cities by turn 22, and 8 cities by turn 24. Now you have 8 turns to build 2 more cities, so you get a little lucky with 2 more huts, or you PRB 1 settler, and get another city from a hut.

Sidenote: If, for instance, every city had 3 shields/turn and 2 food/turn, then you would build the settlers 4 turns faster, and have 12 minus 4 turns (=8 turns) to build 2 more cities with the settlers. This would force you to PRB, them in time.

Of course you can also change the production when the city reach size 2 (if you already had 3 in production), and get 5 shields/turn, but that is after 10 turns, so you only save 1 turn to do that. If you change the production when the city is at size 2 and you have 2 production (at size 1), you can get 4 production (1 less food), and save 2 turns. This of course only works if you there are forest nearby or coal etc.

So it really is possible to make 10 cities in 32 turns!!
Usually I am not lucky with the huts at all (like Shadowdale and some others, so I only end up with 2-4 cities, depending on the terrain, barbarians and how many settlers you start with). If you really concentrate in getting Monarchy as early as possible, you will have more food, and the cities will grow faster, and you can build more settlers faster + you don't have to worry about waste.

 

[starlifter]

quote:

I usually play on Prince or King. But I have encountered yet another problem: By the time my second settler is built, its like 2700 BC!!! How the heck do I get 10 cities by 2400 BC?
--------------------
reply by el_kalkylus:

You have 32 turns to make it. Here is one example how.

Depending on map size, there may be as many as 80 turns by 2400 BC. Different map sizes/difficulties cause different numbers of game turns by each year. The Excel spreadheet of GOTM results by Matrix contains a detailed accounting of each turn/year. You can check it manually by looking at the cheat mode ("set game year") of the game in question, to find out the game turn in your case.

 

[el_kalkylus]

All work for nothing

 

[starlifter]

All work for nothing

Not at all... it is quite possible the number of turns could be 32... In fact, a 420, 470, or 520 turn game will have 32 turns in 2400 BC. Only the 570 turn game will have 80 turns. So your analysis is quite applicable .

BTW, in GOTM 9 (see GOTM 9 Spoiler thread) I had two Advanced Tribes by 2400 BC, and 4 total cities... still had nowhere near 10 cities that early. later, I had 2 more advanced tribes, for a total of 14 cities by 1 AD (turn 100). I'm not the fastest starter, though.

It would not be a common thing to have 10 cities in the first 32 turns in a 1X1X gam. Where is the game that got 10 cities in 32 turns? Was it a GOTM game (if so, which one?)?

Feel free to post a game & we'll have a look and see if we can figure out how it was done. The only way I can really see a game like that is with lots of hut help, or something special in the start conditions.

 

[el_kalkylus]

I was being sarcastic about my post.

I quoted Exsanguination that asked how you could make 10 cities before 2400 BC, and I showed by my example how impossible it would be to make 10 cities. In practic, I showed it's almost impossible (unless you are really lucky). That was the point. What I didn't think of, was that there are different number of turns according to levels. So I haven't really done it right.

I think I did it right for emperor level. On Diety people would be unhappy so it wouldn't work.

 

[Exsanguination]

Thanks a lot, I'll try each of these strategies and see which works best for me. In response to your question (starlifter), one of the threads I read (maybe a couple weeks back) talked about getting 15 cities by 2400 BC. It was then I found out how much I sucked!

And, el kalylus, how do start out with 2 settlers? Never happened to me before...

 

[starlifter]

Thanks a lot, I'll try each of these strategies and see which works best for me. In response to your question (starlifter), one of the threads I read (maybe a couple weeks back) talked about getting 15 cities by 2400 BC. It was then I found out how much I sucked!

And, el kalylus, how do start out with 2 settlers? Never happened to me before...

The 15 cities by 2400BC was very likely a 570 turn game, then. That would be quite astounding on a smaller map and higher difficulty level .

You almost always get 2 settlers in a random deity game. Lower level games often have only one settler! That's a perk at deity. But the AI gets 2 settlers, too, hehe....