How do I keep up in tech?

[CIV34ME]

I thought that, on regent level, the AI's research rate is even with yours. However, when I tried playing a game on regent, when I met one of the AI civs, they were alaways 3-6 techs ahead of me. What's worse is, I didn't have enough money to buy any of the techs. The only time I could get a tech from the AI was when I did a per-turn deal for their least-expensive tech that left me with almost no income for the next twenty turns. I usually have about 3-6 cities by the time I meet someone, with a worker for each city, and I am making about 5 GPT with the science slider set to 50%. If the AI recives no research boost on regent level, what are they doing that I'm not that is getting them all of these techs?

 

[Tomoyo]

When are you meeting them? Why do you have your science slider set to 50%? That's the worst possible setting. Try 100%, 0%, or 10% for min research. The AIs probably met each other and traded their techs or they could have popped some huts.

If you are building settlers at size 3, your research will also be very slow early on. However, 3-6 techs is nothing, especially early on. You can catch up with the some clever brokering in no time at all.

 

[Steve Thompson]

You only have your research at 50%? Geeze! It's not like you need money that bad in the Ancient Era... That, compounded with the AI's tendency to trade techs and keep all the other AI players more-or-less on par, and the possibility of goody huts being favorable to them, accounts for your problem. You can catch up, yes, but bargaining with the AI is the worst possible option, I think. You should always stay ahead in the tech tree!

 

[Tomoyo]

I disagree. Bargaining with the AI is great if you can pull off an nfer.

 

[thunder]

The only way you're going to stay ahead is thru bargaining. Trade is key. You "MUST" trade, if possible every turn. The more you trade the better the relations between you and the AI. That's a good thing.

 

[Turner]

Plus, later on when you can out-tech the AI, selling them techs for GPT is a good way to keep their economy down. The AI will almost always want to buy a tech from you - even if it cripples them. I've had many a game where I've been so far ahead in the endgame because of this that even selling them 'crucial' (to me) techs such as Motorized Transportation or Flight, it's been easy to take over their resources denying it to them. All of their money is coming my way, and that leaves them little for unit upkeep or upgrading. Very easy to conquest the AI when you've got Tanks and MechInf, and they're running around with riflemen.

 

[thunder]

When you decide to trade a tech, trade the same tech to all of them. Otherwise they will do it amongst themselves. Instead of you gaining, they will. Remember the only way for you to get stronger is if they get weaker. Well maybe not the only way, but it's a way.

 

[CIV34ME]

Well, I could put the research slider at 10% and then save up gold to buy techs with, but that's counting on the fact that I'll find alot of AI civs on my continent. Also, I usually like to decalre war on the first civ I find so I can take them out before they get more than a few cities. Therefore I can't trade them GPT for techs because I'd get a rep hit. Because I like to go for conquest or domination, I alaways build settlers at size 3, to get a good size advantage and to secure resources. I also noticed that in the AA when I'm only making 2-8 GPT, the amount of gold that goes to science doesn't change unless you move the slider 20-40% at a time.

What would be a good stratagey if I wanted to 1. win by conquest, and 2. do most of the research myself instead of through trading?

(BTW, you mentioned that I should try the research slider at 100%. If 100% of my income is going to science than wouldn't I alaways be in a deficit?)

 

[Science Rules]

At the beginning of the game, 100% science is possible without deficits if you have not built any city improvments that require maitnance and have all your troops supported by the four free units per city bonus of despotism. By the mid to the end of the Ancient Age, when you either have four or five buildings or have a military larger than what allowed by your government and the number of cities you have, a rate of 80%-90% still works well without incurring deficits.

 

[nullspace]

What would be a good stratagey if I wanted to 1. win by conquest, and 2. do most of the research myself instead of through trading?

(BTW, you mentioned that I should try the research slider at 100%. If 100% of my income is going to science than wouldn't I alaways be in a deficit?)

First, you simply CAN'T do most of the research yourself and expect to keep up. You need to get some techs from other civs. The AIs trade techs among themselves, so you need to do so in order to match their tech speed.

You CAN, however, research at 100% for most of the game. Research the techs that the AI usually doesn't research. Figuring that out comes mostly through experiance, but the AI really likes techs with governemnts, defensive troops, and mobilization. When you get a tech that some AIs don't have, trade your tech to them for any techs they have, then trade those new techs, for more techs, gold, luxuries, or whatever the AI can offer. In this way, the one tech you researched can get you several more techs, and any gold you get will let you keep your research at 100%. That's how you keep up.

 

[Gogf]

A lot of what has been said in this thread is not true.

1. Never have your research at 100% unless you're pulling in GPT from other civs, building wealth, have a ton of taxmen, or are desperate to get a tech and have gold to lose.
2. In the early game, don't use 100% research, as you'll need to be adjusting the luxury slider to keep all citizens working.
3. Do what Turner says. On Regent especially, you can easily outresearch the AI, especially once they're giving you all their gold.

 

[Tomoyo]

When I suggest slider settings, lux is not counted. When you have 10% lux, 100% sci means 90%.

I find it better to alternate between Max and Min. (Not on the same tech, of course)

 

[whoknows888]

IMO, on Regent you should during the AA go 10% research and buy it, or if you are a person who wants the tech researched themselves then go at about 80-90%, depending upon the lux slider. On my current Monarchy game, I was ahead in techs and stayed ahead by full out research, and had met many of the civs at the start of the game.

 

[Brain]

I agree that you need some trade with the AI, but it's not that crucial at regent level.

Another way you can catch up is by going straight for the great library. Pre-build with the palace or pyramids so that it's almost ready when you get litterature.

And why are you killing off the first civ you meet? They can help you by: 1) doing some of the research and trading with you, 2) doing some of the exploration and providing you with a map and contacts.

 

[nullspace]

A lot of what has been said in this thread is not true.

1. Never have your research at 100% unless you're pulling in GPT from other civs, building wealth, have a ton of taxmen, or are desperate to get a tech and have gold to lose.
2. In the early game, don't use 100% research, as you'll need to be adjusting the luxury slider to keep all citizens working.
3. Do what Turner says. On Regent especially, you can easily outresearch the AI, especially once they're giving you all their gold.

Yeah, I guess I didn't say it, but of course use the lux slider whenever you need it. The important part is point 3: No matter how you get a tech (research or buy) you can get more techs or gold by trading it to the AI. The AIs do this amongst themselves, and you must too in order to keep up or get ahead. At least until your economy is much stronger than theirs.

 

[Science Rules]

2. In the early game, don't use 100% research, as you'll need to be adjusting the luxury slider to keep all citizens working.

Remember this is regent where the first three citizens are born content, so you will be most likely be building settlers at three citizens until you get a luxury hooked up, by then you already have your core empire and will start city improvements, using the luxury slider at 10% maybe, but after those temples are built, four citizens are content, plus a luxury or two garuntees all six citizens of a pre-aqueduct town will be working tiles.

 

[CIV34ME]

And why are you killing off the first civ you meet?

Since I usually play with a continents map, I usually have two-three AI civs sharing my continent. One of my first goals is alaways to eliminate the AI civs on my continent. So, destroying the first one I meet, before they can get more than two-three cities, is alot easier than trying to destroy them once they have expanded across the continent.

Thanks for the ideas guys. I think I will try a game of peace and try to get most techs through trading, going for a spaceship or cultural victory. I will also try a game with maximum research most of the time, and then sell my techs to the AI.

 

[Spartanism]

I have been as far as 15 techs behind a civ and still won and reached the modern era 1st. Dont give up or lose patience. Moving down the tech tree is like a snowball running down the mountain. You will gain speed as the game progresses. One of the most enjoyable parts of the game is when you finaly realise that you are now th emost advanced Civ. All that hard work playing catch up is now paid off.

 

[rysingsun]

I have been as far as 15 techs behind a civ and still won and reached the modern era 1st.

if i win my current game (which i have >50 percent chance at this poin) i will have come up from at least a 20 tech deficit. that will be a record for me. and i will have learned never to play the aztecs again