How Do I Restore the Old Improvement Rate?

[sakesniper]

Cause this is ridiculous.

 

[Iskar Jarak]

I think it's to make old workers more valuable with increased bonus from the work rate promos.

 

[mickyd47]

It's not that bad deal with it. Just get a Stack O' workers promoted right with some protection and you're sorted.

 

[Cyrusfan]

1. Learn to mod using python and XML
2. Search through half a GB of files to find the relevant bits of info and change them.
3. Post mod here on the forum
4. Take massive abuse from strangers who wouldn't have made the precise changes you did.

 

[EugeneStyles]

I think your best bet is to deal with it until the next patch, which will rollback some of the unhealth changes and I think will increase worker speed a bit. I see what they were going for with promoted workers being much faster than unpromoted, but it just takes so long to link up those first few resources. I'm pretty sure that the base speed will be increased some. Not to original levels, but better than it is now.

 

[Valkrionn]

Pretty much, yes. Next patch will have a few adjustments.

 

[sakesniper]

like i felt awesome finally being able to play a game without having to turn a bunch of "features" off so a rampaging minotaur or animal pack doesn't kill every ai and possibly me by turn ten but now games are soooooo slooooow in an already slooooooowwwww mod mod of a sloooooowwwwww mod of a slow game that i don't even care anymore. "press enter to end turn" simulator indeed

 

[Zai]

Assets\XML\Units\CIV4BuildInfos.xml

Basically all the iTime entries were boosted by a lot, so you can reduce them to what you want fairly easily. A quicker way though would be to open CIV4PromotionInfos.xml in that same folder, find the Skilled promotions using a search, then adjust the iWorkRateModify value to something much higher. It's very easy.

 

[Opera]

Yes, patch 1.31 will have quicker build times.

 

[Jabie]

Yes the worker speed and Unhealth = 2 x Population has had a strong slowdown effect on my game, plus the Barbarian stacks seem to have slowed the game right down for me and the AI. I'm in turn 220-ish and have four Cities - which is about the same as the best AIs in the world builder.

It all feeds into itself. The cities can't grow too large (and productive) because of lack of food due to the high levels of unhelathiness. Building farms and plantations takes a long time, so the cities grow very slowly indeed. Lack of production in turn means that it's hard to build up enough of a military/economy to escort your Settlers and found your next city. It's also telling that nearly all the GPP in the game so far have been Healers - which implies a lot granaries have been (needed to be) built.

Mitigations

Speed the workers back up to their regular speed (or 120% of their regualr speed to balance worker promotions), 35 turns for a Pasture is far too long when their are trolls and goblins out there. Zai has supplied the xml file, so I guess I can do this for myself.

Change bad health from population back to 1 x Population. This will somewhat devalue health resources and Healers, but will speed up the development of all Civs. I hate to imagine what is going to happen to Erebus if/when blight hits. Is this data in an XML file anywhere?

Remove the building requirements for military units. This allows you to get archers and axemen up and running faster and compete with the barbarians more effectively. This is a game option which can be turned on or off.

 

[Zai]

Change bad health from population back to 1 x Population. This will somewhat devalue health resources and Healers, but will speed up the development of all Civs. I hate to imagine what is going to happen to Erebus if/when blight hits. Is this data in an XML file anywhere?

Assets/XML/GlobalDefinesAlt.xml

Find UNHEALTH_PER_POP and adjust to your liking.

I haven't tested that one, but it should work.

 

[lordrune]

I continue to believe, having played a few games, that slowing down the mid-game using the doubled population unhealth is a very positive outcome for this mod.

Re the blight, you might find that it's not as bad as it was before. If your cities are probably developed with fresh water, granaries, smokehouses, etc., they will actually adjust better as their population reduces.

Back on the original topic - the work times are a little bit long, but not by much. Buffing the workers with skilled, tools, etc. increases their speed significantly, so that should be taken to account when re-balancing work times.

 

[Koravis]

I love the health changes and the slow improvement times. Makes thinking about my buildorder more important and slows down the tech/growth rate by a lot(Which was sorely needed in my opinion, I don't want to have teched everything and built everything in all my cities before my 3rd war) Cities were generally way to huge before.(I think anyways, only played vanilla FFH and the other modmods before 1.3.

As for slow improvements, my this is great, and fits well into the unhealth, to. finally connecting my empire and building my improvements is a challenge, and protecting improvements important.(I was so happy when my worker teams finally connected my first and second cities under constant assault from frostlings. The AI seems a bit slow to catch on to the necessary number of workers though maybe.

 

[EugeneStyles]

I continue to believe, having played a few games, that slowing down the mid-game using the doubled population unhealth is a very positive outcome for this mod.

Yeah, I didn't necessarily agree with you at first (but I was more focused on how unhealth destroyed the early game and was willing to concede that it might be okay later), but having been playing with 1 unhealth-per-pop, I have to say that it's currently a nonissue. I think it will be much better with 2 unhealth and increased base health in the next patch.

Back on the original topic - the work times are a little bit long, but not by much. Buffing the workers with skilled, tools, etc. increases their speed significantly, so that should be taken to account when re-balancing work times.

This is true. I had a Worker with Skilled III and I gave him Orthus' Axe (+100% workrate) and his build rate was *almost* acceptable. If Workers started out at level 1 with an acceptable build rate, some of those higher level promotions and tools won't even matter.

 

[Opera]

Using two promoted workers is the best way to get to a very satisfying build rate. Being Industrious helps too. I'm gonna add a "+50% production rate" to a civic for the next patch as well as slightly reducing the base time for builds.

2 unhealth per pop won't change.

 

[Zai]

I actually haven't even noticed a change with the 2 unhealth per pop. Happiness has always been the limiting factor to city size for me, doesn't really matter how big a city is if most of the pop isn't working. I'm still finding that to be the case. Growth is slowed, but it's meaningless when you are waiting for research or buildings to increase happiness.

Makes thinking about my buildorder more important and slows down the tech/growth rate by a lot(Which was sorely needed in my opinion, I don't want to have teched everything and built everything in all my cities before my 3rd war)

You've always had the option to change the game speed. It accomplishes the same thing you are talking about.

 

[Merddyn]

My thought on unhealth... Why not make the unhealthiness from population a little more exponential (if possible)? As an example, have population 1-6 be 1 unhappiness, 7-12 2, 13-18 3, and so forth? Maybe not that same rate of increase, as it's just an example, although by 18 population in that example, the unhealth balances out to be the same, but it helps make the early game better, as well as getting other cities started.

 

[Cyrusfan]

Opera, I think a lot of the flak you're getting is because we got the reduced abiltiy to choose improvements and the reduced yields and the bump up in unhealthiness all at once without any warning that I can recall, so it's been quite the shock to the system. I got into a game with the Grigori, with rivers, and got up to population 6 and 7 without a whole lot of difficulty (deer and mushrooms nearby) and 8 pretty much as soon as Adaptive allowed me to add Expansive (which really improved my outlook on life, at least until the earth elementals arrived). Hopefully as we have time to adjust, the reactions may mellow a bit. It's certainly better than 3 food per pop which strangle's cities' ability to recoup population lost to event or vampires. I'm just scared to try the Kuriotates at this point, though.

That said, I half like Merddyin's idea, in that maybe there could be a way to make the first few population only 1 unhealthiness. I'm not sure if that's practically any different from boosting the base healthiness of cities, though. And I certainly don't want to see more than 2 unhealthiness per population.

If we want to address the frequent pillaging of improvements, maybe there's some way we could make pillaged versions of them like with the epic lairs? No yield bonuses or improvement use, but they'd speed up workers rebuilding the former improvement.

 

[Opera]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9443956#post9443956

Adding health through early civics might help, yes.

Merddyn, that's interesting but maybe a bit too complex, too 'hidden' as well. A fix value sounds better to me, but I will let Valkrionn state his feelings as well.

Pillaging: think your best bet is to wait for the savages balancing and then you'd have to take out those nasty pillagers before they pillage you

 

[Valkrionn]

Opera, I think a lot of the flak you're getting is because we got the reduced abiltiy to choose improvements and the reduced yields and the bump up in unhealthiness all at once without any warning that I can recall, so it's been quite the shock to the system. I got into a game with the Grigori, with rivers, and got up to population 6 and 7 without a whole lot of difficulty (deer and mushrooms nearby) and 8 pretty much as soon as Adaptive allowed me to add Expansive (which really improved my outlook on life, at least until the earth elementals arrived). Hopefully as we have time to adjust, the reactions may mellow a bit. It's certainly better than 3 food per pop which strangle's cities' ability to recoup population lost to event or vampires. I'm just scared to try the Kuriotates at this point, though.

That said, I half like Merddyin's idea, in that maybe there could be a way to make the first few population only 1 unhealthiness. I'm not sure if that's practically any different from boosting the base healthiness of cities, though. And I certainly don't want to see more than 2 unhealthiness per population.

If we want to address the frequent pillaging of improvements, maybe there's some way we could make pillaged versions of them like with the epic lairs? No yield bonuses or improvement use, but they'd speed up workers rebuilding the former improvement.

Yeah, as people play with it more and get used to it we've been seeing some opinions change. It's why we insisted that while there may be some rough edges left (particularly when related to specific civs), as a whole it is playing well.

And yes, it was a pretty big shock to the system. Development was over a long period, and it didn't come all at once for us or the testers... Didn't really take it into account there.

For the pillaging: We were discussing something like that on #erebus.