How do you achieve city population of 120 with so much hunger?

[hecose]

I noticed that in the example game posted on 10 April, Rome had a population of 120. I downloaded the game to have a look. Rome is also having a big famine. How did Rome achieve a citizen of 120 when there is not enough food? I think there must be some technique I have not learnt. Can someone enlighten me?

 

[Smash]

food caravans/freights

 

[BlueMonday]

Or you can alter the rules so that terrian squares produce more food.

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[HIEROPHANT]

i hope i can get a city bigger than that.

 

[hecose]

Aah. I have never used food caravans before (well, except using them to build wonders

). So, does that mean even if you have food caravans from other cities supporting your current city, the city display will still show hunger? (which is... hmm... not so good) Also, if one city is supplying food to another city, then the first city will lack food itself, right? Then we're back to square one - not enough food. Or is there some trick with food caravans? Sorry for so many questions. I really haven't used them before.

 

[Magnus]

Well, Hecose, Think of it this way, at the end game, you can easily produce one freight per turn in all your big cities, so you can just send food caravans from once city to its neighbor, and vice versa, that way, each city grows by one on arrival of the freight and even though there is inevitable hunger as a result, your cities loss of food per turn will not exceed the speed at which you can keep producing those food freights, thus you keep on growing!

This is pretty much a stylistic/points situation you do once you have effectively conquered the world.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Food freights, Food freights, Food freights. I started running freight units into Rome in 1938, when Rome had a population of 39; at two freight per turn required to increase the population by one, this required 162 units of freight to raise the population to 120.

The problem is: a city usually only records one incoming food freight per turn, and one outgoing food freight per turn. Consequently, hunger grows in an almost direct proportion to the population, requiring more food freight to feed the population. At the end of the game, I had over 250 reserve food freights, enough to feed the population for twenty years or so.

(Of course, is it fair to run up the score while creating hunger? There's a topic for debate. But I figure -- like Asimov and other sci-fi writers -- that if you want to colonize the galaxy, you have to generate a surplus population with an incentive to leave the nest. And "hunger" is as good of an incentive as any.)

 

[Archbob]

I never get my cities above 45, the caravans aren't worth it.

 

[Håkan Eriksson]

I almost never use the food caravan strategy. Becouse when I am in agame I want to focus on army size, city improvments, wonders and things like that. And the caravans I build I usually use to get a better trade.

It's only when I have global dominions that I do this. But by then I often get bored and just finsh of that last civ.

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[RedWolf]

Originally posted by Magnus:
Well, Hecose, Think of it this way, at the end game, you can easily produce one freight per turn in all your big cities, so you can just send food caravans from once city to its neighbor, and vice versa, that way, each city grows by one on arrival of the freight and even though there is inevitable hunger as a result, your cities loss of food per turn will not exceed the speed at which you can keep producing those food freights, thus you keep on growing!

This is pretty much a stylistic/points situation you do once you have effectively conquered the world.

I'm still not sure I get it... If one freight caravan goes out it takes X number of food with it. But when one comes in it brings X number of food with it - so it just replaces what already went out. So how does this help?

 

[Ecco]

Whats the point of having a city over say 30 or 40? For the "prestige"?

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"The weak have one weapon: the errors of those who think they are strong."

- Georges Bidault

 

[VanillaCube]

Why do you guys want such big cities.
SIMPLIFLY MAN!!!!!
35 to 40 is usually too large already!

 

[SlowwHand]

I wish I could find someone with a population 120 city.
I've never taken a city that size.

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It's In The Way That You Use It

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[DBSD13]

Think about it...
Your single battalion of tanks marches into the 120 million ppl city, when you have just newly conquored it... Now imagine a hell lot of the population hate your rule and conduct guerrlia warfare IN the city.

There's NO WAY you can keep the city in your control.

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by RedWolf:
I'm still not sure I get it... If one freight caravan goes out it takes X number of food with it. But when one comes in it brings X number of food with it - so it just replaces what already went out. So how does this help?

No matter how many caravans a city sends to another, it will always show -1 in food. You are not "lowering" the popluation of the supplying city, it merely sets up a possible starvation situation which is easliy counteracted or ignored if there is enough to last the game.

Here is an example:

Washington and New York have reached maximum possible size (farmland and supermarkets) and they are both at size 30 and the food surplus in each city is 0. Assuming that the civ has the Pyramids or each city has graneries, half of each food box is filled, but no more will be added.

New York makes a food freight every turn. It sends one to Washington which fills Washington's food box completely (each freight fills 1/2 box) and pushes it to size 31 because of it.

New York is now size 30 with a -1 in food surplus because of the freight and Washington is now size 31 with a negative surplus because of the added person. The negative surplus does not hurt the cities as there is plently to work with thanks to having 1/2 the box filled by having the Pyramids (or graneries).

Two turn later, New York sends two food caravans to Washington. New York is still only -1 in food surplus (now three down from the half-way line after 3 turns), but the city can go for a VERY long time like this before there are any ill effects. Washington is slightly below 1/2 of a the box due to the negative surplus, but reaches 1/2 with the first caravan and reaches a full box with the second.

Now, New York is still size 30 with still only -1 in food surplus since it is supplying the same city. Washington is now size 32 with slightly more starvation, but again it will not have to worry about losing population as there will always be 1/2 of the food box filled at the start of the next turn.

Take this to a larger scale where Boston supplies New York, Philadelphia supplies Boston, etc. In a circle like this, the cities involved can go way up in population while only taking a -1 in food each for suppling the same city.

I hope my explanation helped rather than hindered.

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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock

[This message has been edited by Kev (edited April 30, 2001).]

 

[RedWolf]

I sort of get the concept I think... So when A city makes a food caravan it doesn't actually physically take away any of it's food.. it just sets the food surplus to -1 for that turn?

Thats the part thats confusing me I think... What actually happens to the city that MAKES the food caravan

 

[Kev]

The city making the caravan will lose one food production for each city that it supplies, and this effect is permanent (unless the city it is supplying is destroyed or disbanded).

For example:

New York (with a food surplus of 0) sends a food caravan to Washington which will set New York's surplus to -1 from now on. This -1 will remain so unless Washington is disbanded or destroyed. If New York had a +1 surplus before the caravan, then the new surplus would be 0. This will be the case no matter how many caravans/freight that New York sends to Washington.

However, if New York (with a surplus of 0) sends caravans to Washington, Boston and Philadelphia, then New York's surplus will now be -3 permanently. If New York started at +1 before this, then the new count would be -2. This is why it is better to have a city only supply one other and why it can be nice to send food in a circular pattern or back and forth between two cities.

In all cases, this is assuming that New York is maxed-out on food gathering (every square farmland and supermarket inside). Keep in mind that if the surplus is +3 and then a caravan goes out the surplus will be +2. Then, if you irrigate a previously unirrigated square, the surplus is back up to +3. The caravan just removed 1 food that it could give to its own citizens.

I am sure that I am failing to mention things, but there have been other threads dealing with this as well that I am sure you can find by doing a search. I am also sure that someone can suggest to you a strategy report on food caravans either at this site or at Apolyton.

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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock

[This message has been edited by Kev (edited May 01, 2001).]

 

[RedWolf]

Thanks... I think i got it now.

 

[Ecco]

...and there is still no point in makin the population over 30......

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"The weak have one weapon: the errors of those who think they are strong."

- Georges Bidault

 

[Magnus]

sure there is - just think - 100 scientists in your SSC!!!!!