How do you Keshik?

[Puhi]

Tried playing Mongolia today for the first time, on immortal, my usual difficulty.

I opened liberty, completed it, then moved onto honor. Does that sound reasonable?

One thing I did that may have been a mistake: I teched to education before chivalry. I figured the science boost from unis and scientists is too important to pass up. Do you recommend going straight to chivalry?

Once I got to chivalry, there was only one real target available- Rome, who had the biggest army. I've been at war for many turns, and while my keshiks have killed a ton of roman units (mostly pikes and musketmen), i never seem able to be able to take the city. As soon as I get the city health down, in comes another wave of muskets, pikes, and crossbows. I have 8 keshiks (using all the horse resources I have) and 3 muskets ready to take the city, but like I said, Rome keeps sending in more units.

Three other civs joined in and dow'd Rome, but he still has never ending units. I will get to logistics soon, which should help.

Any advice on how to keshik better?

 

[Phukit]

Tried playing Mongolia today for the first time, on immortal, my usual difficulty.

I opened liberty, completed it, then moved onto honor. Does that sound reasonable?

One thing I did that may have been a mistake: I teched to education before chivalry. I figured the science boost from unis and scientists is too important to pass up. Do you recommend going straight to chivalry?

Once I got to chivalry, there was only one real target available- Rome, who had the biggest army. I've been at war for many turns, and while my keshiks have killed a ton of roman units (mostly pikes and musketmen), i never seem able to be able to take the city. As soon as I get the city health down, in comes another wave of muskets, pikes, and crossbows. I have 8 keshiks (using all the horse resources I have) and 3 muskets ready to take the city, but like I said, Rome keeps sending in more units.

Three other civs joined in and dow'd Rome, but he still has never ending units. I will get to logistics soon, which should help.

Any advice on how to keshik better?

2-3 cities,full liberty,GE to bulb early NC,beeline chivalry....upgrade/spam keshiks. KILL KILL KILL.

 

[Dushku]

GE to bulb early NC

I used to be of this mindset. However, since there is no competition for NC, Academy + NC gives more science.

I'm more interested in your tech path. When I play Liberty, once luxuries and Writing are accounted for, I do Workshops. This helps for everything after your first few ranged and/or couple melee. I'm a little new to domination myself (only Emperor), so I'm unclear if Machinery or Civil Service is the next target. After that I would do Education, but as Mongolia, I think I would favor Chivalry. Especially if I already went Machinery.

[EDIT]
I'm also curious of policy path. I'm on a map where I'm warring pretty much from the beginning. I'm doing good on Workers, so I opened Honor after Collective Rule. With the intention of picking up Military Tradition before finishing off Liberty. I'll have NC up in the early 80s, so is this really so bad an approach?

 

[KmDubya]

One tip is to start a war with a city state and never make peace. make Chariot Archers and have them gain exp attacking the city. The goal is to get logistics and range. I'd get range first for the chariot archers as they can't move after firing.

You start with chariot archers since their range promotions will apply to your Keshiks, plus it is easier to build a lot of chariot archers and then upgrade to Keshiks rather than hard build the Keshik.

Settle near horses as you'll want as many as you can get, the circus helps as well.

If someone is too close you can use your high promotion chariot archers to take their cities and start the slaughter. As long as your guys have range they can fire forever in safety, you just need enough to overcome the regen each round, it might take a while but it will eventually go flatline and then one melee or horse can take it.

Don't get sidetracked tech wise from the goal of Chivalry. Take care of the basics and then keep you eye on the goal

 

[Dushku]

One tip is to start a war with a city state and never make peace.

That's an awesome point! I usually avoid Chariot Archers since their promotions don't upgrade well, but not nearly as much of a problem for Mongolia and Arabia!

I actually made a video about Farming City States showing off how to pull it off and some of the benefits of doing so if people are interested in the possibilities:

 

[Phukit]

I used to be of this mindset. However, since there is no competition for NC, Academy + NC gives more science.

I'm more interested in your tech path. When I play Liberty, once luxuries and Writing are accounted for, I do Workshops. This helps for everything after your first few ranged and/or couple melee. I'm a little new to domination myself (only Emperor), so I'm unclear if Machinery or Civil Service is the next target. After that I would do Education, but as Mongolia, I think I would favor Chivalry. Especially if I already went Machinery.

[EDIT]
I'm also curious of policy path. I'm on a map where I'm warring pretty much from the beginning. I'm doing good on Workers, so I opened Honor after Collective Rule. With the intention of picking up Military Tradition before finishing off Liberty. I'll have NC up in the early 80s, so is this really so bad an approach?

depends how production heavy your cap is.If its going to take me more than 12 turns to hard build NC ill just bulb it.I often use the GE for Oracle if i can hard build NC fast enough.The extra science from GS is nice,but am I really planning on teching past Arties?

Im not worried about anything in the bottom half of the tech tree until after Chivalry.All I need are Keshiks and a few un-promoted horsemen for city capture.

 

[Sclb]

I have 8 keshiks (using all the horse resources I have) and 3 muskets ready to take the city, but like I said, Rome keeps sending in more units.

Make sure you build at least 2 horseman and never upgrade them so that you can capture cities. As long as enemy city has 1 hp when you send in the horsemans, they won't die no matter how low their hp are. You can let them recapture cities, since it helps kill their units and reduces the population thus unhappiness. Later you can get cavalry or lancers to help capture cities, but do not upgrade keshiks unless you managed to enter modern era and still haven't finished. I wouldn't bother building non mounted units for Mongolia as they are to slow to keep up with mounted and will be constantly left behind. Once you enter Industrial, you can start building cannons to turn into artillery to speed it up as enemy cities get up to 70-100 defense range.

Also if the first civ you're up against had musketmans, it meant you tech is too slow. You have to beeline the UU, after getting NC.

You can also use the GE for Machu Picchu if you have a city that can build it. Gold is always good for domination especially if you have prebuilt roads to move your slower units. In general, GS isn't worth it for early domination, as you won't be able to get much boost out of bulbs or academies if you aim for a war tech before Dynamite.

 

[Puhi]

I'm more interested in your tech path.
I'm also curious of policy path.

For tech, after getting the luxury techs, I pretty much went straight for education. I'm used to playing tall tradition, so I guess it's a habit. I'll try another mongolia game where I go chivalry first. Doing it the way I did it, the enemy had muskets by the time I had Keshiks.

For policies, I completed Liberty to get the scientist to make an academy. Again, this is probably a habit from tall tradition play, focusing on getting an early academy. On my next try, I think I may only go liberty for the free settler, then switch to honor. That way I can get the double xp bonus unlocked sooner.

That advice about using a cs as a training ground for chariot archers sounds really great for mongolia. i'll have to try that too.

 

[Plumfairy]

I opened liberty, completed it, then moved onto honor. Does that sound reasonable?

IMO, Liberty is (usually) a sub-optimal tree for the Mongols. Liberty is best used when you either A) need to expand super-quickly, or B ) are planning on doing an early rush (e.g. Composite bowmen) and you want the early hammers.

Keshiks, however, are relatively late: Chivalry. Consequently, I prefer to either go full Tradition then Honor, or just go Honor. I have a feeling full Tradition is usually the better choice, but I really enjoy going straight honor.

And I'd like to reiterate others' advice to build at least 2 horsemen that you never upgrade. (I usually build 3 if I can manage it... two for my initial army, and a third for my second army)

 

[Sclb]

I prefer a tradition honor mixed start. Tradition until Monarchy for the happiness boost, then Honor left side. There isn't enough time for growth part of tradition to kick in.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Step 1. Mass build Chariot Archers and tech to Horseback Riding quickly.
Step 2. Get to Chivalry before everything.
Step 3. Kill everything

 

[Dushku]

For tech, after getting the luxury techs, I pretty much went straight for education. I'm used to playing tall tradition, so I guess it's a habit.

Usually when you play Liberty, you should go for Workshops ahead of Education. Based on the posts I'm seeing here, that might not quite be as true for pure domination. This would be me playing out of habit as well!

Though I must say, I'm really digging Collective Rule -> Military Tradition. Here's a shot from my current game:

Spoiler :

One of my Scouts turned Comp Bow has Range already and a 2nd one is about to get it. Ignore the happiness; I JUST gifted a Mercantile CS whose borders happened to grow to include a THIRD unique luxury

 

[FrostK]

I am quite sure that tradition is mush better than liberty if you war with keshiks. Go just 2 cities, or 3 if land is good. Food caravans to cap >> NC >> Chivalry. Miss all techs you do not need, of course you should not open Education before - it delays Keshiks a lot. And I guess this was youe main problem.
-prebuild chariots and sell resources to have gold for up >> fastest rush
-build national epic to have +15% >> later, but units stronger

Considering exp farm on cs... You can try it once, twice. But doing it every game is just awfull.

 

[Sclb]

I'm not a big fan of CS exp farm, I rather just DoW an AI and farm them, could be done immediately after worker stealing.

 

[GenuineRisk]

Building Chariots is quite important. If you're on flat ground and have horses, (Mongolia tends to get at least a few thanks to start bias) you can easily take a capital or two before Chivalry. Chariots with Logistics can move after shooting. Even if you can't use Chariots immediately, you can still use them for CS quests and civilian protection. I prefer full Honor for the Mongols - it gives you a free Khan for your first war, it allow you to spam Chariots for less than 50% of the hammers of Keniks and upgrade them for cheap after Chivalry (IIRC, it's normally a pretty expensive upgrade... something like 260g on standard speed) and it allows your Keshiks to level up ridiculously fast. If you have a choice of victims, I would go after the one with horses first so that you can build even more Keshiks.

 

[sherbz]

Tried playing Mongolia today for the first time, on immortal, my usual difficulty.

I opened liberty, completed it, then moved onto honor. Does that sound reasonable?

One thing I did that may have been a mistake: I teched to education before chivalry. I figured the science boost from unis and scientists is too important to pass up. Do you recommend going straight to chivalry?

Once I got to chivalry, there was only one real target available- Rome, who had the biggest army. I've been at war for many turns, and while my keshiks have killed a ton of roman units (mostly pikes and musketmen), i never seem able to be able to take the city. As soon as I get the city health down, in comes another wave of muskets, pikes, and crossbows. I have 8 keshiks (using all the horse resources I have) and 3 muskets ready to take the city, but like I said, Rome keeps sending in more units.

Three other civs joined in and dow'd Rome, but he still has never ending units. I will get to logistics soon, which should help.

Any advice on how to keshik better?

Funny you should ask this question. I posted a forum game a while back which was Mongolia on immortal difficulty. And it is actually the most fun in a civ game i have ever had. Its obscenely over powered and you have a huge amount of horse to play with. I would suggest downloading the save and booting it up. The thread is obviously dead now, but you can see how myself and others played the map. You have a tonne of natural wonders to help you along and can become insanely powerful in faith. And with 7 or 8 Keshiks you should be able to dominate your whole continent quite easily. Its a good map to play if you are learning the power of Keshik's on higher difficulties.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=523901

 

[docbud]

^^I'll have to download the save tonight when I get home from work. Thanks.

I read the thread and it looks like fun.

 

[docbud]

I tried the game and quit in frustration. Something was buggy about it.

Was doing great and built 8 chariot archers and a couple of horsemen. Rushed chivilary.

Suddenly my horse count started going up and my chariot archers were disappearing while teching. I was nowhere near my limit so far as troops and never got a warning. They were just getting deleted. By the time I hit chivalry I had three chariot archers.

So like an idiot I built and bought keshiks and went I went DOWd Sweden he sent a swarm of swordsmen.

And my gold dropped from 30 to -5.

I quit. I would have posted in that thread but I didn't want to zombie it.

 

[Primacide]

Just an FYI: skip honor. The real limit on a Dom Vic is happiness, which honor doesn't really help you with. Those policies are much better spent in something like commerce, whose happiness policy at the end of the tree will basically mean you never have to worry about happiness again.

 

[consentient]

Flat out the best tree for Mongolia is Honor. You get much cheaper upgrades for the CAs, faster XP, and gold for kills. Since your aim should be to win before T200, there is really no need for anything else beyond 2/3 cities with horses, a ton of units, and the gold to upgrade them. Spare cash should be used for AI bribes (to create victims people don't mind you killing so much) and CS alliances.