How do you make espionage effective?

[mrlight]

I tried to use propaganda a million times and i have never succeeded once and i wasted a lot of money. what decides the outcome of a propaganda? (happy citizens? garrisons? culture? and maybe civil disorder/resistance?, size of the city? starvation?)

by the way, when i am in communism,my espionage experience is at Veteran. Does that mean i will succeed more operations than a regular? is there a way to become elite at this thing?

 

[Fierro1816]

All the things you named affects the outcome. Governament too makes difference. (Democratic propaganda is the most efective)

by the way, when i am in communism,my espionage experience is at Veteran. Does that mean i will succeed more operations than a regular? is there a way to become elite at this thing?

1. Yes, cheaper and better... as far as I know.

2. Yeah! Civ3xEditor

 

[jack merchant]

I used to think espionage was too expensive too, but playing on higher levels has convinced me otherwise. It is, in fact, inordinately ineffective. Safely stealing techs tends to cost 3-4k, which is only a fraction of the price it takes to buy (or to research). In a developed economy with a representative government, you can often make 1,000 gold per turn by running all taxes, which means that you can generally steal techs as fast as the AI researches them.

The only rule of thumb I have for spying is that, for some reason, planting spies and stealing seems to fail more often if I try to do so directly after the IA finishes, and directly after the AI researches a tech. It's as if somehow they expect it, so you need to wait a turn or two for them to let down their guard.

This is merely the impression I have though - I can in no way factually confirm it.

 

[mrlight]

Here's another question. Do steal the world map/technology remove the map/technology from your opponent? If you stole the map from someone, I think they will lose the map and have to explore and trade again for it. but if it doesn't, it doesn't make much sense because espionage comes too late in the game and everybody should have every detail of the world by then

 

[Grille]

I think they don't "lose" the map. However, I haven't tried it and the ai has also never stolen my map (or I wasn't aware of it; then again, the map stayed). But wouldn't be pretty effective, as the ai would have to erase the knowledge from my mind when stealing my map...

 

[CXwinds]

A great way to make espoinage effective in terms of propaganda is to do it when the civilization is in anarchy. Also remember its not going to work for thier capital. Aim for cities that the AI recently conquered cus its likely that in addition to them being in resistence they are unhappy. This makes it more likely to switch. How do you get them into anarchy... a great way is to give them techs like Democracy cus they'll switch immediately. Also if a war is prolonged they will eventually switch so you want to get updates from your military advisor often as to the state of their current government.

 

[marceagleye]

First of all you don't need a spy to steal technology... You can begin doing this as soon as you build an embassy in the targeted civ's capitol. I was able to do it once in two tries under despotism, but only because I was lucky enough to have enough cash around from luxury sales, busted goody huts and a very early golden age....

Another thing I'd like to add... in my experience if you're successful planting a spy you'll be successful planting a second one that same turn. Every time in the past if I got busted by one civ and tried to plant a spy in a second civ immediately after, they would bust me too. I've never been able to plant three in a row though. Maybe i just have extreme luck, but every time I plant one successfully, the second one's a gimme. I've also learned that if I get busted to not try it again with another civ cause they'll bust me too... Propaganda is very difficult. I tried that one about six or seven times and never succeeded. Sabotage production is hard to figure though. I tried that one three times on cities that were too far from the capitol to be productive, but were on the verge of completing Temple or Library. Failed all three times. However, once I tried it "immediately" against communist Cleopatra when I was democratic Elizabeth. I fully expected to fail and Cleopatra would declare war, but then military advisor said "We have successfully sabotaged production. Heliopolis must restart its production of tank." I've never attempted to steal world map or troop positions. You'll never get busted investigating cities, though. That's how spies help me the most during war. Use spy to investigate island cities you plan on capturing so you know what type and how many units to send...I'm seven out of eight stealing tech under communism. Once I get mired in World War and I'm forced to switch to communism I usually move the science slider down to zero right away if it will take more than four turns to complete the current research. If I can complete the research in four turns or less I wait until completion to move the slider down to zero. After that just watch the gold pile up and wait for the AI to do its research. I'm not sure if I ever tried this IMMEDIATELY after the AI learned a new tech. According to Jack Merchant's advice, probably not. But it shouldn't hurt to wait an extra turn or two before going for it. Any civs you're at peace with will usually sell you the tech for cheaper than it would cost to steal it, though.

 

[jack merchant]

Another thing to add: if you fail in an espionage mission with one particular civ, you have to wait (iirc) 4 turns before you can try again, as otherwise the mission will always fail.
Note that this is in case espionage fails and your spy is caught; if your steal attempt fails and your spy gets away, you can try again on the same turn.

 

[Grille]

I'd like to know something about the expenses of spy missions. Has this been figured out before?