How does the home city tile work?

[yeeha]

Pardon me, but it's been a very long time since I played Civ, and so I am having trouble remembering exactly how the home tile of a city is treated.

1) Does it always have the same food/production/commerce value regardless of what's on it, or does it experience bonuses from resources and tile features like every other square?

2) If there's e.g. gold or silver on the center city tile, must it be mined to obtain the bonus? CAN it be mined at all?

Sorry for this noob question, I realize it is probably answered SOMEWHERE here on the forums but I was hoping someone could save me a couple hours of digging through old threads

 

[Balderstrom]

If you place a city on top of a resource, you get the tile benefit of that resource.
But not the Improvement benefit of that resource.

IE A tile w/ Sheep, provides +1 , your city would be 3 1 1

But if you didn't settle there, you could of improved the sheep for +2 more

As well there is one other tidbit, settling ontop of a plains hill will result in a 2 city.

 

[Kesshi]

yeeha,

The "home city tile" is increased to 2 food, regardless*, and if I recall correctly, the production and commerce granted are the same as if you were to work that tile with no improvements. This is why settling on resources is usually a bad idea. Having just said that, there is an exception. If you settle on a resource, you instantly get that resource, assuming you have the teches enabled to activate that resource. If you don't have hunting, and you settle on deer, you won't get the deer bonus until after you learn hunting.

I try to get Pyramids early. If I don't have stone neary my first two city locations, I'll usually settle on any stone I can find to avoid the 18 turns it takes to build a quarry.

Edit: Balderstrom is correct, but only sorta. The food bonus for resources is kinda screwy. I think it's such a way that if the default tile didn't produce two food (not a grassland) it won't produce extra food, but if the default tile did produce two food, you do get the extra food.

*see below for examples.

Spoiler :

Plains Cow City, 2 food.

Spoiler :

Grassland Bananas City, 3 food.

Spoiler :

Flood Plains city, 2 food.

Spoiler :

Hills Plains city, 2 food.

Now that I think about it, I think the best way to word it would be "A city's home tile will produce a minimum of 2 food." I just realized that "flood plains" get converted back to desert when you found a city on them, and deserts naturally produce zero food.

Plains + Cows = 2 food, so no increase is needed.
Grassland + Bananas = 3 food, so no increase is needed.
Flood Plains are desert = 0 food, so a increased of 2 food is needed.

Etc.

 

[yeeha]

Thank you both very much! Now I can return to my regularly scheduled losing at Civ

 

[Kesshi]

Oh yeah, don't forget the infamous Hills Plains Stone River City (that I made using the worldbuilder.)

Spoiler :

2 food, 3 production, 1 commerce all in one tile!

 

[yeeha]

Lol, yeah, but you know, that's chetzing!

 

[Willem]

To answer your second question. Once a city occupies a tile you can't mine or add any other improvement to it. The same applies to all other improvements as well, you can only have one per tile.

 

[playshogi]

I'm pretty sure I've founded on grassland iron and only got 1 hammer. But I don't remember if it matters whether you found on grassland/iron or if you found out later about the iron when you discover Iron Working.

 

[Balderstrom]

That's interesting. Perhaps in all cases the Bonus needs to be greater than the default city to get it at all.
Thus a grassland iron, is only 1 , no effect to a city.
The same as Keshi's example there of the plains cow, is only 2 & no effect to a city.

 

[Balderstrom]

I actually think it would be cool if cities got different Production based on its terrain, which I've seen mentioned somewhere before. Beyond the key difference of the plains hills. Obviously a direct additive of the terrain bonuses would likely be unbalancing, but something could be done to make it another aspect of planning. I've jotted some ideas down "offline", along with the idea that perhaps Tundra and Iceland should get something 'extra' to help out the city just a small bit.

 

[MrCynical]

1)No. The city tile generates 2 food, 1 hammer and 1 commerce as a minimum. If the tile by default generates more than this, you still get the extra. For example, if the tile generates 2 hammers normally then when you found a city on it, the tile will generate 2F 2H 1C. Overlays (forest, jungle and floodplains) are removed when the city is founded, so do not count.

Plains/Hills are the only generic terrain type which will give more than the default 2F 1H 1C. Founding on some resources may also give a higher output from the city tile.

2)If you found a city on a resource, that resource is immediately connected to your trade network as long as you have the appropriate technology to use it. You can't however build the conventional improvement, which may greatly reduce the tile output (e.g. founding on gold you'll only get a couple of commerce from the city tile, as opposed to 6+ commerce if you found elsewhere and mine it).

 

[Kesshi]

1)No. The city tile generates 2 food, 1 hammer and 1 commerce as a minimum. If the tile by default generates more than this, you still get the extra. For example, if the tile generates 2 hammers normally then when you found a city on it, the tile will generate 2F 2H 1C. Overlays (forest, hills and floodplains) are removed when the city is founded, so do not count.

Ahhhh! Thank you MyCynical. That makes perfect sense.

I never thought of floodplains as overlays, but that makes a lot of sense.

I actually think it would be cool if cities got different Production based on its terrain, which I've seen mentioned somewhere before. Beyond the key difference of the plains hills. Obviously a direct additive of the terrain bonuses would likely be unbalancing, but something could be done to make it another aspect of planning. I've jotted some ideas down "offline", along with the idea that perhaps Tundra and Iceland should get something 'extra' to help out the city just a small bit.

Balderstrom,

I had an idea along this where cities could build specific production buildings based on whichever type of tile it was founded in. Similar to how a levy works to increase production from river tiles, a plains or grassland city might be able to produce a barn building, which would increase healthiness based on how many farmed squares nearby, or a hills city might be able to produce an electrical station building, which would increase production from all windmills in the surrounding city. Things like that to give yourself some more variety and make city placement even more crucial.

 

[Balderstrom]

@ Keshi, thats kinda interesting.

@ Mr.Cynical, your explanation makes sense, except the included part about Hills being a removed overlay. Since the Plains Hills is the only place where a city will get 2 Hammers (barring a + resource) - whereas a city on a plains is 1 , one on a plains hill is 2.

Oddly enough, I have seen the AI's cities on my second last game, that were getting 3 when built on a plains hills + River. I have not been able to duplicate that as a player (Though I suppose it could have been a Golden Age, it seemed to be applying to any of the AI's with that criteria)

 

[MrCynical]

@ Mr.Cynical, your explanation makes sense, except the included part about Hills being a removed overlay. Since the Plains Hills is the only place where a city will get 2 Hammers (barring a + resource) - whereas a city on a plains is 1 , one on a plains hill is 2.

Oops - that should have read forests, jungle, and floodplain. Hills aren't a removable overlay.

Oddly enough, I have seen the AI's cities on my second last game, that were getting 3 when built on a plains hills + River. I have not been able to duplicate that as a player (Though I suppose it could have been a Golden Age, it seemed to be applying to any of the AI's with that criteria)

3 hammers is possible - if the city is founded on a plains hill with a hammer resource (e.g.) stone. Golden age is the other possibility.

 

[Balderstrom]

I just loaded that old game up, was gonna open the WorldBuilder on it.
And realized...its the Levee (+1 on river tiles)

 

[wrex]

1. I have a futher question... I love the wonders as they give major boosts to my civ and I tend to be a more culture winner than anything... so I have always built cities on 3 hammer spots... near fresh water or coast if I can but always 3 hammer so that my city really gets that production boost... do I get the same boost if my city is just near a 3 hammer spot? And if so are there any improvments that can help/hinder those spots?

2. I have also noticed that the game puts a blue circle around certain spots when I am running around with my settler... I have always taken this to mean that its a good spot for a city but the spots never look good to me... so whats that blue circle?

3. Finally, does founding a city next to say a very large mountain leed to a crouded city? It always seems to but I didnt know if I was just imagening this effect...

I have mastered most aspects of the game but this whole where to place my cities has really boggled me.... thanks so much for all the great input! Really!

 

[Tibur753]

The blue circle means a good city spot, but most people don't listen to the suggestions because they want to specialize their cities.

No, a mountain doesn't make cities more crowded.

 

[MrCynical]

1)Tiles that give 3 hammers when founded on are rather rare - only plains/hills with certain resources. They won't necessarily be ideal city sites due to the surrounding terrain as well.

2)These indicate locations the computer thinks are good for cities. They are sometimes correct, but not always. In particular the AI has blind spots when it comes to founding cities one tile from the coast or fresh water, or on top of resources.

3)Crowded cities are purely due to the population. The surrounding terrain is irrelevant. Mountains are essentially non-tiles, since they generate nothing.

 

[Crowqueen]

2) - you're right. I have never settled anywhere the computer has suggested, though it is slightly better at settling when playing a character rather than just suggesting possible improvements.

 

[Eclipse-X010]

1) If you settle 1 tile away from a 3 hammer spot you will get the bonus production if you have your citizens work that tile (you can adjust what tile you citizens work from city screen). It's generally not a good idea to work the 3 hammer tile untill your city has a reasonably sized pop.

2) The blue circles are recommended spots but the computer will usually only calculate for food (at least in my game). The computer will not take into account the tiles distance from other cits, the resources hear the spot, or whether or not the spot is located in a good political are (i.e. it might be to close to your neighbor or not situated in the position where you will obtain the most land. It's best to ignore the blue circles

3) Mountains do not affect your city incept that for the most part they are useless terrain. (In the R&F scenario/mod I think some civs can produce food on mountains).

NOTE: Going back to 1) It's usually a bad idea to settle on a 3 hammer tile that has resources, in fact the only reason for settling on a 3 hammer tile is a) proximity to resources, b) it's a good defensive spot. You will get a better production bonuses from a tile if you build a mine there which you cannot do if there's a city there. If there's iron or bronze on the tile you can even 5+ hammers (represented by an anvil) which greatly improves production.