How is trading now?

[The Highwayman]

I have gotten upwards of eleven and some lump, I think 12GPT was the highest.

Yes, exactly! Does making many of those deals still crash your game? I am unsure if I have seen a crash post-patch. I think I did.

I can reliably get about 11 gpt for a lux later in the game, or very early if it's Scotland (they love the amenities). I haven't crashed the game yet since discovering the problem since I've dialed back the number of individual deals. I think I can do up to and around 100 deals. I can try it in my current Rome game - I've got three friendlies with no bulk gold but gpt. But I will definitely save first - there's a chance the game may not reload!

 

[Equilin]

But I can still sell strategics for 1 GPT.

How? I can only sell 1 piece of strategic at 1 bulk of gold (not GPT), up to 5 if the ai wants it, or 10 if they are at war, but never gpt.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

How? I can only sell 1 piece of strategic at 1 bulk of gold (not GPT), up to 5 if the ai wants it, or 10 if they are at war, but never gpt.

You have to get rid of all their bulk gold first. Either via selling strategics, or via selling your own GPT (could be considered an exploit). As soon as the AI has no bulk gold, they will always trade you 1 GPT for a strategic/diplo favor, but only if you ask "what would you give me".

 

[RealHuhn]

There are enough incentives to settle cities already, and if your "problem" is "too many Amenities" I don't really know what to tell you. Try to grow your cities faster perhaps.

Unless I buy luxes from the AI and run a lot of Amenity policies I always end up at -3 or -2 because my cities grow so fast. So at around T120 I will have to start buying massive amounts of luxes from the AI. I think the balance works out really well right now.

Where did I say the game has "too many amenities"? I'm just saying that these cheap deals make the game even easier. If you want a luxury from an AI, it should cost more than 3 gpt or 7 diplo favor, don't you agree? It's even less than before the patch.
Of course, there are enough reasons to settle new cities but I was talking about luxuries specifically.

 

[tedhebert]

I have found more variety and logic on the trade offers and acceptance. Some weird things too, but I have a personal rule to NOT accept deals that I feel is really bad for the AI. It seems to happen a lot less for me since NFP, and I have succeded in making trades that were not possible before, specifically concernig strategics

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Where did I say the game has "too many amenities"? I'm just saying that these cheap deals make the game even easier. If you want a luxury from an AI, it should cost more than 3 gpt or 7 diplo favor, don't you agree? It's even less than before the patch.
Of course, there are enough reasons to settle new cities but I was talking about luxuries specifically.

I agree 7 diplo favor is very little for a ressource. I don't know the specifics of your game, but if that really is the norm now (from my experience I still pay an average of 7 GPT for a lux, but then again I am very unpopular ) then yeah, you're right. Luxes shouldn't cost 3GPT/7 Diplo as a baseline. Did you trade with a friend/ally?

 

[Pfeffersack]

You have to get rid of all their bulk gold first. Either via selling strategics, or via selling your own GPT (could be considered an exploit). As soon as the AI has no bulk gold, they will always trade you 1 GPT for a strategic/diplo favor, but only if you ask "what would you give me".

Exactly and the NFP hasn't changed this. Since I consider this a buggy, I already filed a report with an exemplaric save here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...t-for-1-unit-of-a-strategic-ressource.658348/

 

[MrRadar]

It seems they made AI even more generous. Far too generous. This is already way overboard:

Spoiler :

 

[Starwars]

At a surface glance (I haven't looked into it that deeply), it's also my experience that the AI seems to give a lot more. Sometimes they give absolutely silly amounts for stuff like open borders.

 

[oSiyeza]

It seems they made AI even more generous. Far too generous. This is already way overboard:

Spoiler :

Honestly I dont see these deals as bad.

In the first deal, the AI is selling an extra luxury. They get a benefit from this since an extra copy of the luxury gives them nothing at all. If I could not get a new luxury in exchange for an extra copy of one, I would happily sell it too.

In the second one. A research alliance can be very powerful too. If I was behind in tech, I would make a deal like this.

Edit: I just realized it is Gpt and not plain gold. Yep The second one is too much. But 3-5GPT would not be that bad. So the second deal is weird. But is not as bad as broken. The AI values too much diplomatic factors, probably intentionally, so the player has an easy tume when doing diplomacy.

Why are these deals so bad in your opinion?

 

[MrRadar]

Honestly I dont see these deals as bad.

No, they're not. The problem is that they are far too good.

In the first deal, the AI is selling an extra luxury. They get a benefit from this since an extra copy of the luxury gives them nothing at all. If I could not get a new luxury in exchange for an extra copy of one, I would happily sell it too.

If only they would sell. What they're doing is they almost give it away to me. 33 gold is nothing, when it improves my amenities and yields. And it is not that they have like 10 whales and already sold them to whoever would need them. If I would sell a surplus luxury to this AI, it wold probably pay me ~10 gpt. It has been skewed too much to favour the player. And this is on Deity.
By the way, do AI trade luxuries between themselves? I somehow doubt it.

In the second one. A research alliance can be very powerful too. If I was behind in tech, I would make a deal like this.

Edit: I just realized it is Gpt and not plain gold. Yep The second one is too much. But 3-5GPT would not be that bad. So the second deal is weird. But is not as bad as broken. The AI values too much diplomatic factors, probably intentionally, so the player has an easy tume when doing diplomacy.

Alliances are beneficial for both sides. Yet it is always the AI that tends to throw in some extra cash for the privilege. Before NFP they also paid but a bit less, and if I wanted specifically the military alliance, usually it was I who had to add some financial incentive. But now, post-NFP, AI pays more for everything, including it now pays for military alliances as well.

And open borders deals are just ridiculous. You can get them from the AI in the same deal on top of other things for nothing or even on slightly better terms for the whole deal.

 

[tzu]

Before NFP they also paid but a bit less, and if I wanted specifically the military alliance, usually it was I who had to add some financial incentive. But now, post-NFP, AI pays more for everything, including it now pays for military alliances as well.
And open borders deals are just ridiculous. You can get them from the AI in the same deal on top of other things for nothing or even on slightly better terms for the whole deal.

Well, how can you please best customers, who sometimes demand themselves: "Just take our money now and shut up!" and you suspect, they are a bit weak on the frustration tolerance side?!

 

[yung.carl.jung]

It seems they made AI even more generous. Far too generous. This is already way overboard:

Getting extra money for alliances is not new at all. I don't think this part of the game has changed with the patch honestly, I think I have gotten a few GPT for those deals, though I don't remember getting 10 GPT. This might just be an outlier, more testing needs to be done to confirm.

I pretty much always get a significant amount of money for alliances, though not more than you do in that picture.

In the end it doesn't really matter, if you want to you can pretty much always take all the gold the AI has because of the 1 strategic for 1 GPT bug..

What they're doing is they almost give it away to me. 33 gold is nothing, when it improves my amenities and yields.

You are totally correct, and a competitive AI would indeed never sell you an amenity boost for that little money. In fact they should never sell you anything if they feel like it will make you win faster/get you significantly ahead.

However it should be obvious by now that the AI is not your competitor, nor your opponent, but more of an oberblown city-state, a nice decoration for you to trade with. Their main design point is to help you win, not to stop you from winning, nor to win themselves. It's a shame that this is how it went, but this is the current state of the game.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Trading in Civ6 is really exploitable, there're always lots of exploits, even if some being fixed, others raised.

I personally ban all sorts of trading when I'm playing.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Trading in Civ6 is really exploitable, there're always lots of exploits, even if some being fixed, others raised.

I personally ban all sorts of trading when I'm playing.

how much do you think a victory is slowed down when you're not trading at all? I had to play a game without trading once (game kept crashing) and I think it ended up costing me probably around 20 or more turns. trading is pretty tedious so the game is probably more enjoyable without

 

[Lily_Lancer]

how much do you think a victory is slowed down when you're not trading at all? I had to play a game without trading once (game kept crashing) and I think it ended up costing me probably around 20 or more turns. trading is pretty tedious so the game is probably more enjoyable without

Maybe 10-20 turns? AIs value diplomatic favors and resources like horse/iron etc so highly that I think it's an exploit to trade with them.

 

[DWilson]

I still think they need to increase diplomatic act bribing. I want to be able to bribe a civ to make peace with my city state allies. I want to be able to get an aggressive civ to attack another (at least if they have high expectations of the outcome), without going to war myself.

Civ V had this, though perhaps it was a bit too easily to bribe war.

 

[Equilin]

I still think they need to increase diplomatic act bribing. I want to be able to bribe a civ to make peace with my city state allies. I want to be able to get an aggressive civ to attack another (at least if they have high expectations of the outcome), without going to war myself.

Civ V had this, though perhaps it was a bit too easily to bribe war.

Well part of why it is easy is because most part of the deal can be cancelled by a simple wardec from the player, forcing that ai to fight 2 civs and doomed.

 

[Pietato]

I still think they need to increase diplomatic act bribing. I want to be able to bribe a civ to make peace with my city state allies. I want to be able to get an aggressive civ to attack another (at least if they have high expectations of the outcome), without going to war myself.

Civ V had this, though perhaps it was a bit too easily to bribe war.

I gave Shaka 1 gold to declare war on the world in civ 5.

 

[Infixo]

I gave Shaka 1 gold to declare war on the world in civ 5.

Some people just like to watch the world burn...