How siphon funds actually works

[antimony]

Maybe this is widely known in which case I'll just remove or merge this thread.

When an enemy spy successfully siphon funds, it doesn't deplete your treasury at once, and it doesn't prevent your city from generating income during the mission (since they don't know if it will succeed). However, when it succeeds, the city doesn't generate gold for the next 8 turns. Unfortunately, the interface doesn't reflect this, so your balance goes down even if the GPT is still positive. Tested this with one city, so the effect was pretty clear (my true GPT was just my expenses for those turns).

This is probably why people have reported bankruptcy even though their GPT seems positive.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

In my experience, it seems to siphon the funds over 3 turns... I remember the first time I saw a siphon message I panicked, as it was more than my current treasury. If I remember correctly I had about 500g while making about 300 gpt. 600g was siphoned. The next few turns my balance went up only about 100g. This has repeated several times, so I just quit paying close attention...

 

[Woobyluv]

This is known. -Dothraki saying

 

[Victoria]

I think I have seen 3 reported bankruptcy threads on here, all in all not a lot of people affected. Then I noticed I was going to be bankrupt soon if I did not act and realised that great Zimbabwe is a classic way to become bankrupt with spies and likely how a lot of people get so badly affected but not the AI.

 

[Slip de Garcon]

I think I have seen 3 reported bankruptcy threads on here, all in all not a lot of people affected. Then I noticed I was going to be bankrupt soon if I did not act and realised that great Zimbabwe is a classic way to become bankrupt with spies and likely how a lot of people get so badly affected but not the AI.

On the other hand, Great Zimbabwe and a counterspy is a fantastic honey trap for enemy spies. Think I've got five in jail in my current game.

 

[stinkubus]

Will that keep them out of your space port or industrial zones?

 

[HEF]

In Beyond Earth a siphon funds got you gold at no expense to the target civ.

Now you might think this is major B/S but IRL what is "Siphon funds"?
Eastern block spy agencies like India's RAW source money from narcotics, which they launder to fund terrorists like the Tamil Tigers (or LTTE). (This is speculation and hearsay. But you can Google it if you like). So the money generated is "black money" basically which doesn't play any part in the target country's economy.

FYI you may (or may not) think that's genius but actually RAW copied the CIA.

Indeed!

Covert Ops is one of the more dynamic portions of Beyond Earth, Rising Tide. It's up to the player's imagination what each of those missions really mean when sending each agent off to a foreign city.

There's a Trait ability called 'Wet Teams' where the icon is depicted with a image of hypodermic needle and a liquid drop. What does this image mean???

I have somewhat of an idea!

Counter-Intelligence is one of the creative aspects of the game when the player receives a notification that there's spy activity [Intrigued being generated] detected in a vulnerable city and if an agent is ranked as 'special agent', sometimes depending on Agreements with colony leaders, or a Trait ability, the player can increase the possibility that the agent will immediately kill the enemy spy if sent to the target city in question but it is never revealed how the agent was killed.

 

[Slip de Garcon]

Will that keep them out of your space port or industrial zones?

It seems to...

 

[blackbutterfly]

Covert Ops is one of the more dynamic portions of Beyond Earth, Rising Tide. It's up to the player's imagination what each of those missions really mean when sending each agent off to a foreign city.

There's a Trait ability called 'Wet Teams' where the icon is depicted with a image of hypodermic needle and a liquid drop. What does this image mean???

I'd like to see more Beyond Earth like missions in Civ VI. Hacking. Flipping cities (coups). Dirty bombs, etc.
I do like the fact Civ VI spies are tangible units you build cos it doesn't seem like some entirely passive system working in the background.

Moderator Action: Removed all the non-game information. Please stick to the game discussion as all the rest is spam. leif

 

[HEF]

I'd like to see more Beyond Earth like missions in Civ VI. Hacking. Flipping cities (coups). Dirty bombs, etc.
I do like the fact Civ VI spies are tangible units you build cos it doesn't seem like some entirely passive system working in the background.

Perhaps that's what the game designers were going for; espionage activity occurring in the shadows while the player engages into the politics & military madness.

Sid Meier has seriously outdid himself!
I have all these other great games yet a majority of my playtime has been Firaxis for the last couple o' years !

 

[Victoria]

Spying as France is quite fun because the first spy is free and promoted so its not like you have to do anything, pretty much straight away the spy brings you in good money

You would have thought the AI would combat spies a bit more... 4 turns per mission is pretty good which is why the time reduction promotions are so good.

As it happens Alban is al +2 levels for stealing gold but once you are a master spy it really makes no difference

 

[Forster]

I guess I am going to have to take a look at spies once I get done with Oriental Empires.

 

[Art Morte]

Bump.

So, what exactly determines the amount of gold a Siphon Funds mission gives? The amount the target city generates? Does the target Civ's current treasury affect it?

I was just playing and one Cree city stated the amount at 300-odd gold and their capital 1600-odd gold. Quite the crazy difference for the same mission in the same Civ.

 

[rattatatouille]

Bump.

So, what exactly determines the amount of gold a Siphon Funds mission gives? The amount the target city generates? Does the target Civ's current treasury affect it?

I was just playing and one Cree city stated the amount at 300-odd gold and their capital 1600-odd gold. Quite the crazy difference for the same mission in the same Civ.

Gold per turn * number of turns needed?

 

[Victoria]

I was just playing and one Cree city stated the amount at 300-odd gold and their capital 1600-odd gold. Quite the crazy difference for the same mission in the same Civ.

per city. If you ever build great zim you had better place a spy there or you can really suffer.
However I am not sure about the values.... a spy can siphon gold in 8, 6, or 4 turns. having it siphon based o the number of turns of the mission seems wrong.... I'll have a look I guess.

 

[Victoria]

I ran a test setting up Sparta (single city) and giving them a CH with market/bank/stock exchange.
I play as france with the intelligence agency, quatermaster and using the linguist promotion to reduce it down to 6 turns.
Turn 4-10 I spent gathering intel in the city to get to 90%
Turn 10-16 I successfully siphoned, here are the oddish results

Notice the difference in gold

and here is their gold over that time - looks like turns 16-21 their balance stopped as expected.. but note turn 22 is reduced.
The -160 is buying a warrior
33x6 = 198 which sort of matches the original but is 6 short (1 per turn)
210 - 6 is the extra 1 per turn the city gets to through the 6 turns
The gold yield does not change as the gold is being produced, just stolen
I guess is does not make sense to use the linguist promotion on a gold stealer
nice to do the test and see it in person, sparta is tough, they can afford the loss.

 

[blackbutterfly]

As it happens Alban is al +2 levels for stealing gold but once you are a master spy it really makes no difference
View attachment 477946

Yes, master spies can do anything

Espionage is one system that's vastly improved in Civ VI. Still missing: Coup d'etat from BERT. It would be cool just to flip a city directly without going through the free state. I like the intrigue levels in BERT which gives you a much better indication of what's going on in your empire. (A lens?). In Civ VI it's hard to keep track of which cities have had money siphoned, or techs stolen. Another thing sorely missing from BERT: hacking (or stealing beakers as opposed to tech boosts).

 

[nzcamel]

In Beyond Earth a siphon funds got you gold at no expense to the target civ.

Now you might think this is major B/S but IRL what is "Siphon funds"?
Eastern block spy agencies like India's RAW source money from narcotics, which they launder to fund terrorists like the Tamil Tigers (or LTTE). (This is speculation and hearsay. But you can Google it if you like). So the money generated is "black money" basically which doesn't play any part in the target country's economy.

In terms of immersion, money that moves through illegal activity is still a loss to the economy as a whole (and the government) as that money would mostly* be spent elsewhere were it not funnelled where it is.
In terms of game play it is great that the target Civ loses the money, as this forces the player to take it seriously. Sure - no one wants an opponent profiteering off oneself, if that costs one nothing, and can be prevented; but the opportunity cost of actually losing money as well as your opponent gaining is much more engaging and worth while countering when considering where resources are best placed.

*Supply n demand states that it isn't this simple...but the majority of money will keep moving one way or another. Unless one is literally stuffing ones mattress with the stuff, it continues to be spent - even when only saved in the bank.

 

[blackbutterfly]

In terms of immersion, money that moves through illegal activity is still a loss to the economy as a whole...

Siphon funds ~= money laundry.


It's fairly common practice it seems. Anyway, this money is effectively "black money". I'm no economist but isn't this money not part of the economy?

Moderator Action: Edited out non-game information. leif

 

[Victoria]

I'm no economist but isn't this money not part of the economy?

Well.... it doesn’t just magically appear... it comes from the population...so it comes from their economy into yours? So yeah
One suspect people that dislike spies and cannot be bothered counterspying want the mechanic toned down