How siphon funds actually works

[nzcamel]

Siphon funds ~= money laundry.

It's fairly common practice it seems. Anyway, this money is effectively "black money". I'm no economist but isn't this money not part of the economy?

All money is part of the economy; though sure, I take your point that this money isn't being taxed (and presumably our budget in game is based on taxes). But that isn't the only way that money has ever been stolen via espionage throughout history; so meh. It's fine as a game mechanic.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Now if only the combat AI was a little better so this would actually matter.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

On Chinese Wiki, this is marked as UI display bug. This mechanism is very similar to civ5.
Once siphon funds succeed, the thief steals 8 times the current GPT of the target city. In next 8 turns, victim will suffer gold lost every turn, which value equals to this current GPT of this city, but won't display on the UI (so called display bug). Not sure if it is correct, just wiki.

This bug is actually quite vicious. At least I had some experience, I didn't notice that I was stolen by AI and only focused on the GPT on the top UI, which led me to bankruptcy. Great Zimbabwe is easy to cause a 5000+ gold lost, and hard to make up for it - this city often provides 75%+ of your national income and now the remaining 25% is for upkeep, which leads to actual negative growth...

If you've ever used Cree, you'll find that spies from the entire world will all run to your Zimbabwe city to steal money. So if you want to build Great Zimbabwe, then at least put two spies in that city (1 is not enough, I've been stolen by 3 AI players in the same turn and caught 1, the rest 2 succeed. This city produce 720 GPT so I lost 5760 * 2 = 11520 gold and apparently I'm broke).

 

[blackbutterfly]

Now if only the combat AI was a little better so this would actually matter.

I take it you've not yet played a game where the AI siphons your money bankrupting your empire. It's the only time i've experienced my empire going into meltdown from amenities. This was a post release/patch change

IDK if it is truly necessary, cos like in BERT the money essentially comes out of the "black market" not the target country's economy.

 

[Victoria]

This bug is actually quite vicious. At least I had some experience

I disagree it is a bug... siphon funds you really should not notice at first, or at all

 

[FearSunn]

Once siphon funds succeed, the thief steals 8 times the current GPT of the target city. In next 8 turns, victim will suffer gold lost every turn...

Is this correct?

 

[Boyan_Sun]

Is this correct?

Don't know. I saw the display value on the right side, and it was exactly correct (8 times of the current GPT of that city), but I did not notice the actual value that every turn lost after being stolen.

 

[Victoria]

Is this correct?

If you look at this post in this thread - How siphon funds actually works
Then it’s very clear that the spy will siphon the cities gold output for the number of turns of the operation... in my example for 6 turns. This means the linguist promotion which reduces time for an operation does not really help siphoning gold. The example shows the funds get taken for the 6 turns after completion. Also the Machiavellianism card is not so valuable to slot.

 

[FearSunn]

If you look at this post in this thread - How siphon funds actually works
Then it’s very clear that the spy will siphon the cities gold output for the number of turns of the operation... in my example for 6 turns. This means the linguist promotion which reduces time for an operation does not really help siphoning gold. The example shows the funds get taken for the 6 turns after completion. Also the Machiavellianism card is not so valuable to slot.

Your example does not answer how individual city GPT and overall GPT corelates.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

If you look at this post in this thread - How siphon funds actually works
Then it’s very clear that the spy will siphon the cities gold output for the number of turns of the operation... in my example for 6 turns. This means the linguist promotion which reduces time for an operation does not really help siphoning gold. The example shows the funds get taken for the 6 turns after completion. Also the Machiavellianism card is not so valuable to slot.

So it steals more money if you do not use Machiavellianism? Weird. What will happen if you once use this policy then remove when siphon success?

 

[Victoria]

So it steals more money if you do not use Machiavellianism? Weird. What will happen if you once use this policy then remove when siphon success?

No.... both machiavellianism and linguist speed up your spy so instead of stealing a great work every 8 turns they steal one every 4 turns, very powerful.
But for stealing gold both are useless because you steal city gold x turns spent so in 8 turns you steal the same amount of gold as if you did 2 siphons at 4 turns each. More hassle and an extra roll to fail. This roll to fail is worse than people think because there is quite a chance to be detected and if you are you have to spend 4 turns escaping on foot and 6-7 turns getting back to the city. Therefore siphoning gold should not be done with a spy that has the linguist promotion amd slotting machiavellianism when not building spies will be worse if all you do is siphon gold.

Your example does not answer how individual city GPT and overall GPT corelates.

Sorry you just asked if correct.
I guess you were questioning the words gold lost in a pedantic way? I’m not sure. However the gold button top left on the main screen shows that your overall gold is summed by city, so that’s how they correlate, or maybe I misunderstand.

 

[blackbutterfly]

No.... both machiavellianism and linguist speed up your spy so instead of stealing a great work every 8 turns they steal one every 4 turns, very powerful.

Add Cryptography to the mix for more awesomeness

(FYI I studied cryptography as a math subject at uni.
I may've been the first black undergraduate to study it in the history of my uni. IDK if it's offered anymore to undergraduates - cos I was also the only person in my entire year to take it).

 

[Victoria]

cos I was also the only person in my entire year to take it)

Are you sure?... maybe they just kept cryptographers apart for safety reasons.

Cryptography is an odd one. you get +1 level and the enemy gets -2 but if you both have it, its -1 each which is right for the cold war & cryptography.
Being level 4 is stronger. Having 2 quartermasters at home is good. Adding them all together means faster escapes or safer defense against the counter spy.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Are you sure?... maybe they just kept cryptographers apart for safety reasons.

That would've been racist (cos I was also the only black math undergraduate in my year)

The course was something like "Advanced Complexity, Cryptography and Model Theory": two half subjects with no obvious relation to one another joined together. Model Theory was nasty. That's why I was the only person to take the course

BTW it's the mathematics behind the RSA. Prime factorisation, which draws together a variety of math & computation subjects like complexity, number theory, modulo arithmetic & algebra. We weren't taught hacking or even how to make (or break) crypto systems. No national security issues.

Cryptography is an odd one. you get +1 level and the enemy gets -2 but if you both have it, its -1 each which is right for the cold war & cryptography.
Being level 4 is stronger. Having 2 quartermasters at home is good. Adding them all together means faster escapes or safer defense against the counter spy.

IDK quartermasters stack? TIL

 

[Victoria]

That would've been racist

No idea why.

We weren't taught hacking or even how to make (or break) crypto systems. No national security issues.

But its a brief step from there to session hijacking or riding. It was more a quip to leave to the imagination... would all conversations be hybrid etc etc

IDK quartermasters stack? TIL

tested! They do indeed, one was rather shocked when one found out.

 

[MarigoldRan]

I take it you've not yet played a game where the AI siphons your money bankrupting your empire. It's the only time i've experienced my empire going into meltdown from amenities. This was a post release/patch change

IDK if it is truly necessary, cos like in BERT the money essentially comes out of the "black market" not the target country's economy.

They die before they get to that stage.

 

[blackbutterfly]

No idea why.

Segregation. Heard of it? No, thats not racist

In light of the recent Russian spy assassination in the UK IRL and its diplomatic repercussions, shouldn't there be a Casus Beli or something when spies are caught?

 

[Victoria]

Segregation. Heard of it? No, thats not racist

Aaaah, I meant keep the cryptographers apart from each other, they are dangerous together.
Don’t like things racy, grew up with the maori’s

 

[Karmah]

My Zimbabwe city is killing spies close to one per turn, with the attempt being unsuccessful each time . I have this perfect counterspy (+2,protect it all, quartermaster). Now, my gold is still stuck, I receive a small fee, less than 100 while I should be receiving 600. Does that makes any sense to you?

 

[Victoria]

I receive a small fee, less than 100 while I should be receiving 600. Does that makes any sense to you?

This sentence does not.
If you mean your GZ is not making as much as it should then that will be down to some spies being successful. You can check in the espionage.csv file or provide an unmodded save.
The GZ honeytrap is a two way street, you will kill lots of spies but some will roll that low %
I tend to use GZ to train up spies but it does cost £££