How the player is a dictator or "god" in strategy games

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I found this video on "player autocracy" interesting. It is the concept that the human player is like a dictator or "god" in most strategy games. They usually have perfect information and have much more control over things than in "real life". The video uses Paradox games as examples with a couple civ references but I think the same applies to civ. In civ, you play a historical leader who lives 6000 years. You control every aspect of the game. Even when you switch to democracy, you still have total control over moving units, passing laws, what cities build etc... This is not a bad thing. I am not suggesting that civ should be a simulator or more realistic. It is just an interesting aspect of strategy games. It is done this way for gameplay reasons. It is one of the things that separates strategy games from simulation games.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the video:

 
You could have an AI partner assisting governance/ruling for you that would get increased decision powers according to the politic cards in you government. If you choose a card increasing cultural/tourism output, the partner AI could start buying and/or place art pieces in order to better maximize that strategic option.
 
I've thought of the idea where maybe you could be overruled on certain things, or have policies passed that you yourself do not choose, depending on if you have a government like Democracy or have built a specific governmental building, like a "Senate House". But other than that, I think the idea of the player being a dictator/god makes sense.
 
You could have an AI partner assisting governance/ruling for you that would get increased decision powers according to the politic cards in you government. If you choose a card increasing cultural/tourism output, the partner AI could start buying and/or place art pieces in order to better maximize that strategic option.
I've thought of the idea where maybe you could be overruled on certain things, or have policies passed that you yourself do not choose, depending on if you have a government like Democracy or have built a specific governmental building, like a "Senate House". But other than that, I think the idea of the player being a dictator/god makes sense.

I would love to see different government types play differently rather than just being different bonuses. I like the idea of a senate that would have ratify your laws or declare war. I think the trick is that these governments would need to offer tangible benefits to offset the loss of player control. Otherwise, I feel like players would never choose them if they perceive it to be better to have total control. And it could be frustrating for the player if they want do an action and the senate stops it. It would feel like the player is not being allowed to play the strategy they want. Perhaps higher happiness leading to less revolts, better economy research, culture and industry could also be benefits of democracy government to offset the lack of military control. This would make democracy good at peaceful play. I think civ2 did this where it was hard to wage war in democracy but it was great for peaceful play. I also think that some policy cards should be government specific. That could also be a benefit if you needed a certain government in order to have a certain really good policy card. Perhaps each government could have unique policy cards just for them. And in democracy, the senate colud vote to pass a law (policy card) that would be a like a free card that does not count towards your total.
 
You could have an AI partner assisting governance/ruling for you that would get increased decision powers according to the politic cards in you government. If you choose a card increasing cultural/tourism output, the partner AI could start buying and/or place art pieces in order to better maximize that strategic option.
Do I trust such an AI partner, or would I feel like Nicholas II giving inordinate power to Rasputin?
 
Alliance of the Sacred Suns has the concept that the "actions" you take are the travels and orders given by you, the celestial emperor, to various governors on your various worlds. Of course, I can't comment if that game is satisfying strategically or not, the interface was kind of headache inducing on the free weekend.
 
The idea of the player with limited knowledge and control is as old as gaming. When you are playing against other Humans, as in Poker or the boardgame Diplomacy, limited control and knowledge is, in fact, the essence of the game.

I remember fondly the old SPI boardgame, Franco-Prussian War, which deliberately tried to give the player trhe same lack of information a 'real' general would have had: all combat factors and sizes of units were hidden, a bunch of 'dummy' units were on the map, so you did not know what you were facing, exactly, until Combat started - and sometimes not very certain even then. In a set of miniatures rules for the Napoleonic Wars from over 50 years ago, while you could see all the units on the table, their morale was not known until the first time you had to test it (and if there was a neutral Umpire present, not even then!). Since 'morale' was a set of three numbers multiplied together, one of which was based on the type of unit (Line, Guards, Grenadiers, etc) one based on you the General's estimate, and one a random generated by the Umpire or game when you tested, which might be 0, there was a chance that on its first test for stability your lovingly painted Franconian Militia might turn out to have 0 morale and run right off the table before you could stop them. It made for some exciting games, but also some frustrating ones. A vehicle for Perfect Plans it wasn't.

Which is the real Crux of the problem. Having the entire game buried in a computer means that virtually any information can be randomized, hidden, or manipulated to Mess With The Gamer's Mind, without needing an Umpire at all. This can give the gamer a taste of the Real Problems that Lieutenants, Colonels, Generals, Politicians, Diplomats, and even God Kings have to deal with all the time, but it may also make Ferd the Gamer rage quit after the umpteenth time he walks his scout into a field of digital bunny rabbits - who all happen to be Homicidally Rabid.

So, much as I like having to deal with 'real' historical Problems, including the fact that No one out of your sight can be trusted to do what you ordered them to do (Mary Beard's recent book on the Roman Emperors emphasized this: even the semi-Divine Imperator of Rome could never be sure that anyone was telling the truth or that anything out of his sight was actually being done the way he wanted it to be: picture of a gamer in a 'realistic' Historical Game!) - I think the whole concept has to be handled very, very carefully. While there is no real limit to the perfidy or apparent perfidy/randomness of people and Mother Nature (the Homicidal ***** of Goddesses), if All is Random the game is unplayable. And if most of it is unpredictable it is effectively unplayable except by Masochists.

So, leaning away from the Omnipotent, Omniscient God-King, Grand Nagus, Ineffable Rotundity is not a bad thing, and some 'uncertainty' can keep an apparently-certain game interesting, but the designers have to constantly be asking themselves: "Is This Too Much?" or "Can This Be Handled With Less F*****g With The Gamer?" Because too much of the latter leads quickly to No Sales and some really nasty comments about the game posted on every site from Tobruck to Togo . . .
 
I would love to see different government types play differently rather than just being different bonuses. I like the idea of a senate that would have ratify your laws or declare war. I think the trick is that these governments would need to offer tangible benefits to offset the loss of player control. Otherwise, I feel like players would never choose them if they perceive it to be better to have total control. And it could be frustrating for the player if they want do an action and the senate stops it. It would feel like the player is not being allowed to play the strategy they want. Perhaps higher happiness leading to less revolts, better economy research, culture and industry could also be benefits of democracy government to offset the lack of military control. This would make democracy good at peaceful play. I think civ2 did this where it was hard to wage war in democracy but it was great for peaceful play. I also think that some policy cards should be government specific. That could also be a benefit if you needed a certain government in order to have a certain really good policy card. Perhaps each government could have unique policy cards just for them. And in democracy, the senate colud vote to pass a law (policy card) that would be a like a free card that does not count towards your total.
I am trying to figure a still gamey system that allow the players to keep control of the direction of their civ but through actions related to the development and needs of your population. Then at least for me the key is to give a more significative role to the population (citizens/denizens). So like CIV already have specialists slots, all your population would have three identitatian parameters; Class (social caste) Heritage (ethnocultural) and Belief (religion) those three variables could represent most kinds of political struggles that justify and provide flavor to whatever form of society the player develops.

Now talking specifically about government elements, "who hold the power" is one of the key elements that gives you three options, Autocracy/Oligarchy/Democracy. Each of these options have their own mechanic so for example:
- Autocracy, the player can do a decree every certain fixed number of turns. These decrees are powerfull bonus for a specific topic but only one can be in effect at once, have downsides in other aspect and when enacted it causes an empire wide happiness/loyalty malus.
- Oligarchy, depending what combination of "source of legitimacy" and ideologies you have, certain kinds of citizens would be assigned as elites, this could be for example the clerics for Theocracy, the warriors for Monarchy, the traders for Capitalism, etc. Then the elites classes would have pacts, their own set of bonuses that can be unlocked from the level of happiness/loyalty, the happier their are more and better bonuses they provide. But to secure this you could need to invest in favors and privileges that would mean spend yields and affect others kinds of citizens.
- Democracy, here we also have events certain number of turns, but these are elections. When an election is held every kind of citizen whose average happiness/loyalty is at least X positive level would provide their own special bonus. Here the individual bonuses are more modest but we must note that are way more identitarian groups, so if we achieve to ballance the interests of our whole population we would boost every aspect of our empire.

Then we have three models, one more direct and specialized but also limited and risky, other that need you to invest more in few privileged groups, and the other that need you to be fair with your whole population to gain more bonuses. Going in more details, there would be minor civic/ideologies that are like policy wildcards, many of these have effects that help your to increase the happiness/loyalty of diverse groups then being good options to achieve the Democracy bonuses, examples are: Pluralism, Humanism, Activism, Suffragism, Abolitionism, Egalitarianism, Secularism, Syncretism, Pacifism, etc.
 
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Isn't there a game out there where you live 80 years or so, then "Die" to become your offspring, whose education choices you made heavily influence "Your" new character as Leader?

Might be good having an element of that, even Dynastic change with Cultural/Militaristic/Science consequences.
 
Isn't there a game out there where you live 80 years or so, then "Die" to become your offspring, whose education choices you made heavily influence "Your" new character as Leader?

Might be good having an element of that, even Dynastic change with Cultural/Militaristic/Science consequences.
I don't see that as adding anything to the game anymore than limiting your power, arbitrarily, having mandatory AI ministers and governors, or luca's calling out for the player to be overthrown on historically-railroaded circumstances. It seems obvious to me that the Civ series means the, "immortal leader," to be a colourful and symbolic face of the, "guiding spirit and hand," of a civ.
 
Isn't there a game out there where you live 80 years or so, then "Die" to become your offspring, whose education choices you made heavily influence "Your" new character as Leader?

Might be good having an element of that, even Dynastic change with Cultural/Militaristic/Science consequences.
Crusader Kings?
 
Playing as a different character over time isn’t really the point of what the topic was getting at it, I thought. The player is still controlling everything.
 
You could have an AI partner assisting governance/ruling for you that would get increased decision powers according to the politic cards in you government. If you choose a card increasing cultural/tourism output, the partner AI could start buying and/or place art pieces in order to better maximize that strategic option.
If it's giving up some control based on past decisions I think thought could work. Civ has a great deal of planning like planting cities and building units already.
 
If it's giving up some control based on past decisions I think thought could work. Civ has a great deal of planning like planting cities and building units already.
Engineered and manadatory limits on the player's ability to manage their civ, and as a boasted about and proud advertised feature, is specifically why I gave MoO3 a miss, despite greatly enjoying MoO2.
 
Engineered and manadatory limits on the player's ability to manage their civ, and as a boasted about and proud advertised feature, is specifically why I gave MoO3 a miss, despite greatly enjoying MoO2.
If I may requote with a slightly different emphasis:

"Artificial and mandatory . . ." anything makes for a poorer game.

If the game simply does not allow you to do something without any in-game reason or prior action on your part, that 's Bad game design.

And wherever the game must impose limitations in order to remain playable, there should always be an alternative to the limitation that allows a (possibly convoluted) path to the same end.

No Required Resource? Some kind of Trade should always be possible, either with Civs, City States, or lesser in-game entities. And, just to keep it interesting, that Trade may be subject to interruption or trade with Z may result in Very Bad Relations with H, which happens to stand for H = Horde massed on your border.

There should ALWAYS be more than one path to a goal, especially in a game covering so much ground in time and space as Civ, and not enabling those paths in the game design is simply going to drive away potential customers/players.
 
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On the topic of "perfect information": By and large, you only have that about your own forces in Civ. Sure, if you spend an exhorbitant sum, you can temporarily have that about one of your enemy's units as well in Civ3, but you don't know everything. And in Civ VI, there's also the "Spread disinformation" mission, which will present inaccurate information about your army to your rivals. Does the AI use that? I'm not sure. But I've done it and it gave me a whole bunch of phantom units that the targeted AI would believe is real.

But on the main topic... yes, this is a tradeoff. I like games that attempt to not give the player dictatorial powers, and one of my criticisms of Cities: Skylines in particular is just that: supposedly you're a mayor, but you're really a dictator. We've already have that, in Sim City 4.

Which games have tried to limit the player's power? One of them is a Paradox game - Victoria II (and presumably III). A fair amount of countries start as absolute monarchies, but few of them have a realistic chance of remaining one for the long term. And once you aren't an absolute monarchy, you have much less control over which buildings are build and how your economy runs. You can still essentially veto reforms, but you can't repeal them at that point, and refusing to enact ones that are in popular demand come with, eventually, severe consequences, which may include overthrowing your government in favor of a more democratic (or anarchist, or, later, communist) one. There are certainly advantages to being able to dictate, "we're going to become the world's leading telephone manufacturer" or "we're going to build a bunch of ammunition factories" that are lost if you have a total free market. But the economy can be more dynamic in a free market, and one of my best economic performances was when I gave in to the desire for reforms quickly and eagerly.

Another is Urban Empire, which eschews the "city builder" label in favor of a "mayor simulator" and at least makes a halfway decent effort in that direction. You have to convince a majority of the city council to enact policies, and the makeup of that council shifts over time, and you can cajole them, but it's hard to force something through that's truly unpopular, and very hard to force more than one such item through, without several years in between. I wish it had been more successful and had had an expansion to round out those dynamics a bit, notably it could use a, "we'll support your party's initiative on X if your party supports us on Y" rather than just individually trading favors. I think part of why it flopped was that many players expected those dictatorial powers that previous "city builders" had given them, and were disappointed not to have them. Although admittedly the performance also was quite poor once you got to the later game.

Finally, the one I've played most recently is Suzerain. You are the Prime Minister of a 1950s-era country that is a non-liberal democracy. You have considerable powers, notably of veto, but you can't just make whatever you want the law, either, there is a Parliament that has to approve it. And it takes a much more personal approach - you are interacting with your ministers, but also with everyday people at rallies, reading newspapers (all of which have one bias or another, some more so than others), and getting occasional statistical reports. But you don't have a microscope on everything that you can zoom in on like in Civ, and you have more problems to solve than you have means (resources) to solve them. So you have to make tradeoffs. Do you increase or decrease military funding? Seek trading partnerships or alliances with Neighbor A or Neighbor B? Increase education or health funding? Or decrease them? Fight corruption, or embrace it? Attempt reform, or encourage the illiberal status quo? Someone will disagree with almost, if not, every potential choice you can make. You'll be proud of the small wins you achieve, and they'll probably be more than canceled out by your failures.

Disclaimer: I've only read the responses here, not watched the video. I'm a written-text kind of person, not a video person.
 
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