How to avoid being attacked?

[Arturo]

I have read BamSpeedy's article on AI attitude (nice one!) but am still a bit hazy.
I have sometime tried to avoid being attacked by an AI civ by giving them gifts when I see there forces approaching. However, it does not seem to make much (any?) difference.
Even getting their attitude all the way up to gracious doesn't seem to change theri mind once they've decided to attack me.

Does it have an effect at all?
What is the best way to avoid being attacked, beside making a gpt deal?

 

[Leha]

In situations where you see militaty stacks of rival civ fast approaching your border , that means , in most cases , AI already came to decision to attack you and no bribe will help .

Edit : keep your troops close to your borders for such cases . Usually I'm glad when I see AI hordes approaching my borders cause I'm allways ready to unwelcomed guests

 

[gozpel]

Build lots of military, check with your military advisor to see how strong your opponents are. If they are stronger than you, you will always be a possible target.

Trade with them. If you send luxuries or resources their way, they will stay happy with you and won't attack.

And if you are weak, always give in to demands...that usually keep them off your back for 20 turns

If you get attacked, hurry to get alliances or else the AI's will bundle up on you. The cost of an alliance are worth it, even if you have to pay out of your nose. A 20 turn deal with a couple of civs can save your puny little civ and diverts the attacking civs attention.

 

[Arturo]

Thanks.
A related question:
If, for example, Egypt and China have an MPP, then I get an MPP with China and Egypt attacks me, China will join me in fighting Egypt, but I am unsure what will happen if I attack Egypt (after the above has happened) on their territory. Does the China-Egypt MPP get cancelled when China declares war against them, or wot?

 

[Leha]

Originally posted by Arturo
Thanks.
A related question:
If, for example, Egypt and China have an MPP, then I get an MPP with China and Egypt attacks me, China will join me in fighting Egypt, but I am unsure what will happen if I attack Egypt (after the above has happened) on their territory. Does the China-Egypt MPP get cancelled when China declares war against them, or wot?

Correct . the minute war is declared , the MPP is cancelled . But make sure Egypt attacks you first on YOUR territory .

 

[SirPleb]

When you see some of those big AI stacks coming in looking like they mean business, it is very hard to turn them away.

Sometimes you can get fooled regarding their intentions - if they're at war with one of your neighbors, and occasionally even if not, they may just be "passing through" to attack someone else. But usually those big stacks mean what they seem to mean - trouble

The only way I've found to sometimes turn them around is to involve that Civ in a war with someone else. E.g. if you're at war with China and Japan sends what looks like trouble your way, you can try allying Japan with you against China. Or you can declare war with another Civ and then try to get Japan to ally with you against them. If you can get such an alliance the troops coming toward you will usually turn around and go after their new enemy.

Sometimes early in the game you may see smaller AI invasion forces heading your way, a few units here and there. This often also means that they have nasty intentions. Sometimes in these cases they're just going for a town or two which they see as a soft spot. If you have some undefended town(s) in the area their troops are approaching, then if you can quickly (before they declare war) get some defenders to those towns, they may change their minds and go elsewhere. Presumably because you no longer look like an easy target

Re your MPP question: Yes, as soon as China declares war on Egypt, their MPP is cancelled. (Along with any other deals they had.)

 

[Arturo]

Thanks all.

Okay, so what about this: In 5 turns time China will declare war on me, but they have NOT decided that at the present and there are no stacks approaching. Is there any way to stop them from deciding to declare (without making MPPs and alliances with other civs), eg by giving them gifts?

If I am next to a strong and beligerent civ I sometimes give them gifts every few turns to keep them happy with me, but quite often out of the blue, even with gracious atitude, they will attack anyway. Are my gifts delaying this at all, or are they completley wasted?

 

[Leha]

Arturo , what difficalty level are you playing ?? Usually gpt deals prevent wars , but if you say they attack anyway , I think your military is way too weak . If no gifts/gpt deals help - then it's time for war , just make alliances and hope to quickly build some regiments .

 

[Arturo]

Regent level.
No, I wasn't in any gpt deals. No 20-turn deals at all. I was just giving them about 50gold every few turns to keep them gracious, but they attacked anyway.

 

[Leha]

Originally posted by Arturo
Regent level.
No, I wasn't in any gpt deals. No 20-turn deals at all. I was just giving them about 50gold every few turns to keep them gracious, but they attacked anyway.

Well , 20 turn deal can help , just offer them a few gpt ( not too much ) for their map , or , AS AN EMERGENCY , give them some lux for free , if you have any .

Edit : just don't forget to remind them of their "graciousness" when you are strong enough .

 

[SirPleb]

I don't know how to tell when they first make the decision to attack. But if we assume that you are before the time they decide, then I think (I'm not sure, guessing here based on a lot of games played) that the things which can help are keeping them gracious (as you are already doing), trading at least one luxury or resource with them, taking a ROP with them, and taking an MPP with them. The ROP is of course a two-edged thing - if they do attack, it lets them get further into your territory when they start.

If you are weaker than the other Civ and behind in tech then I think another thing which helps is to keep a supply of gold (at least a few hundred) in your treasury. It seems to me that often they'll make a demand for something before attacking, and if you give in then they will honor that demand for a fair while, probably it is the usual 20 turn thing. But if you have nothing for them to demand (empty treasury, no tech) then I suspect they just go to war right away without trying to squeeze you first.

 

[JustBen]

Dragging the offending civ into a war with someone else is probably the best way to get them off your back, but it's very rarely a reliable option (if you're equipped to go to war against someone else, why aren't you equipped to fight off an obvious sneak attack?).

Tossing someone spare change (or even significant payments) in a lump sum fasion will help marginally, but only for 10 gifts (if I recall my AI Attitude article correctly).

Exchanging resources will improve the AI's attitude toward you (a little bit for sending and a little bit for receiving, though I may be wrong on that point; forgive me). Again, this is unlikely to help if the stack is already on its way.

Accepting gpt and resources from them in exchange for an up-front payment from you seems to encourage their wars. Buying techs up-front from them in exchange for gpt and resources will likewise discourage war. This seems to be the best way to divert an attack. Buy as much from them as you possibly can on credit. If you buy enough, they'll decide that war is no longer worthwhile. If you don't, at least you get some goods for free (since the declaration of war comes from them, your reputation is not stained).

Finally, it may be most expedient to just demand they leave your territory. That will provoke a declaration of war on your turn, so you can at least get the first strike.

 

[Yndy]

Dragging the offending civ into a war with someone else is probably the best way to get them off your back, but it's very rarely a reliable option (if you're equipped to go to war against someone else, why aren't you equipped to fight off an obvious sneak attack?)

I also thing dragging the threatening civ into another war is the most effective way to escape a war that you just cannot handle. I do this very often on deity games where my start is so bad that my neighbors are two to three times larger than me and there’s nothing I can do in the Ancient Age. This is how I do this:
- Preventing an attack. Whenever one AI is done expanding, it goes to another play mode and war mode is frequent on high levels. So I take one weak civ at the end of the world and declare war to them. I don’t need any army for this war as I am not planning on any fighting. I make an alliance with my neighbor(s) that might consider attacking me. This of course wastes precious gpt but it’s sure to prevent a nasty surprise.
- When I see the SOD. If I can see the SOD in my lands I could either try the option above or make the most out of the situation. I buy whatever I can for gpt (tech or even gold) then ask him to leave. He will probably declare war so I will pay for an alliance with the closest neighbor of my new enemy with the gpt that I got back and/or the tech or gold that I got in the first place. I will need to defend against the SOD but hopefully the AI will be to busy fighting the other AI much more powerful than me.
I find this option most reliable but also most expensive way to protect from the AI.
On a related topic ROP is a good thing to have before rails but afterwards the risk is too high. I strongly advice against it.

 

[WickedSmurf]

The easiest and most available option to keep other civs away is just keeping a big military force. As simple as that.

 

[budweiser]

WickedSmurf is right. That is why I often build lots of warriors early in the game. It's the size of the army that matters, not the quality. Having a large military will often have the added effect of forcing the ai to try to match forces against you. This can keep them from being able to spend much money on research or improvements.

At some point you WILL have to defend yourself. Thats when you need a decent front line made up of forts on hills and mountains behind rivers and in trees. A few ranged weapons help too no matter what the age. Its all up to you, you CAN make yourself invulnerable and no amount of ai troops will be able to break through. The ai is just not smart enough. It takes a small investment and a bit of thought, but this is the time when an attack is welcome.

Fear is another factor but I dont know much about it; like if they fear your archers.

SirPleb - I have also noticed early in the game that the ai seems to know where the barb camps are. Maybe its just because they have more troops out roaming around. They will often send troops across your lands and it looks like they are a danger. But, they actually know where a barb camp is and are hunting for profit.

 

[Qitai]

The barb camp thing is a known AI cheat. You can balance the cheat out by buying a map from them and you will know all the barb camp location as well.

 

[Yndy]

Budweiser and wickedSmurf: try playing higher difficulty levels. You will find that building an army able to defend against the AI is not that simple.

The AI always knows where barb camps are. Buy their map and you will know that too.

 

[Arturo]

For a good way to encourage the AI not to attack (no guarantee, but then, there never is!) see my more recent post on hostage insurance. Its working like a charm for me!

 

[Thadlerian]

Hmmm... the logic in this thread doesn't seem to work with me

If I'm weak, AI will attack me to take my territory and resources.

If I'm strong, AI will attack me because they feel threathened.

 

[JustBen]

I don't think anyone (including myself) has yet mentioned keeping cash in your treasury. This isn't much use when you already see big stacks marching your way, but if the AI sees you have money to extort, they'll often give you a chance to buy peace before war even starts.