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How to Manually Adjust Pioneer Costs?

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by SwirlSlayer, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. SwirlSlayer

    SwirlSlayer Chieftain

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    Hi, I was wondering how to manually adjust pioneer unit costs. In the last couple of betas of VP, pioneers have costed too much for me in comparison to other units (and even wonders!), so I wanted to lower their cost to something like that of settlers. Does anyone know how to edit these cost values?

    Edit: I just realized it might be 3rd and 4th Unique Components that's causing pioneer costs to be so high. I'm going to post about this in that topic im case it's the pioneer from there causing issues.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  2. corona88

    corona88 Chieftain

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    Capital is problem.
    settlers/pioneer/colonist cost is 106 (standard speed), after i build capital cots for settler and colonist is 114 (which should be ok), but cost for pioneer is 228.

    That is one problem, second problem is same scaling on standard and huge maps.

    Tech tree will show you cost.
     
  3. andersw

    andersw King

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    So if I understand it Settler and Colonist cost does not scale but Pioneer does?
    I've forgotten if this was an intentional design choice, it definitely seems over the top.
    Here is a screen shot of cost with 21 cities, epic speed, standard size, happiness at 55%.
    2k hammers for a pioneer, what a bargain!
    Spoiler :

    upload_2019-10-29_16-18-18.png
     
  4. DeafShark

    DeafShark Chieftain

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    Are there updates on how to fix this bug?
     
  5. Bad_At_Diplomacy

    Bad_At_Diplomacy Chieftain

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    Bump. Anyone fixed this yet?

    Pioneer costs are totally insane. Is the VP specific or 3rd and 4th UC specific?
     
  6. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Let me challenge this for a second. So I'm playing a lot of Terra maps lately, and so I've been making a lot of pioneers. A pioneer takes me about 10-15 turns to make in some of my strong cities, I've gotten it as low as 7 turns. That is a hefty burden to be sure. But considering I'm getting a lot of free territory, 2 population, and a lot of buildings built....is it really too expensive? I mean the amount of time it will take the new city to build all of that stuff is much longer, and this way it starts out a lot more productive.
     
  7. kenneth1221

    kenneth1221 Warlord

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    The problem isn't that pioneers are too expensive relative to everything else, the problem is that apparently Pioneers scale when settlers and colonists do not. The internal consistency is the problem, not the game balance of the pioneer itself.
     
  8. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Try building settlers and upgrading them with gold. Overall much cheaper than building pioneers, and they can be waiting at the edge of your territory to start moving as soon as banking is finished.
     
  9. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I agree, and one way or the other the inconsistency should be corrected (as CrazyG just showed there are abuses to them right now). I just bring it up because when this argument comes up, the response is always "pioneers are too expensive", and I think it may be more the inconsistency than the actual cost.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  10. bigcat88

    bigcat88 King

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    Good solution for human - but not for AI :)
    Agree with andersw.
    Maybe in new version something will change.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  11. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    The AI does sometimes have extra settlers around which will get upgraded, so maybe that option should remain.

    But in general I agree, the huge difference in production cost vs settler + upgrade is an issue.
     
  12. Bad_At_Diplomacy

    Bad_At_Diplomacy Chieftain

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    That's certainly the route that I take. However, it's very, very expensive to do so.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  13. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    I'm not 100% sure but I think I remember seeing this addressed in the 2-9 version.
     
  14. Bad_At_Diplomacy

    Bad_At_Diplomacy Chieftain

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    Hmm, I don't see anything in the changelog.
     
  15. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    I saw something in the actual code changes but it was a huge amount to look through and I wasn't specifically looking for that...could be that it wasn't yet addressed as I still see odd values ingame.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  16. azum4roll

    azum4roll King

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    I don't even know where to look for in the code about scaling production costs.
     
  17. Bad_At_Diplomacy

    Bad_At_Diplomacy Chieftain

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    Exactly. Way beyond my abilities already.
     
  18. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    I can't point you in any specific direction, but typically I just clone the repo and then use Notepad++ to search the entire repo for certain Strings that seem like they could return the desired result and then I usually keep searching for specific Strings that turn up in the searches...it's a bit tedious but usually that's how you find the relevant spots sooner or later.
     
    SwirlSlayer likes this.
  19. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

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    Ok, I checked, Pioneer costs really are bugged. Moreover, I don't like how it is quite hardcoded. I'll fix, and expose the logic to database for modders.

    I'm posting it here instead of Github, because I want the community's feedback on the logic to calculate settler costs.

    Currently, the cost is calculated as such:

    First, a base value is obtained based on the game's start era. The number itself is calculated from free buildings (based on each building's cost) and population (based on the amount of food required to get to this number) granted due to advanced start era. For a typical ancient era start, there are no free buildings, and the default start population is 1. So, this number is typically very small.

    Then, there is a city scaler. Currently, this uses the same global define as the empire needs per city modifier, which is 7% increase per city. It uses the same exact define, meaning you can't change one without changing the other.

    After getting this cost, Pioneers and Colonists then have their cost scaled with era, but not Settlers. For Pioneers, the formula is cost * (era + 2), while for Colonists, the formula is cost * (era + 1). The value for era is 0 at Ancient, 1 at Classical, etc. As you can see, this is the source of the bug where Pioneers are more expensive than Colonists. At the same time, because Pioneers have an era scaler, while Settlers don't, there is a sudden jump in cost.

    I'll list out a few aspects I want to discuss, and what I think should be done.

    1. The formula is overly complicated.
    To me, I think the cost should just be (base cost) * (100 + city number multiplier * number of cities) or (base cost) + (increase per city * number of cities).

    2. What should the cost increase from number of cities be?
    Should it be 7%? Or instead of a percent, we have a set number per city? Whatever the case, I intend to make this changeable in the Units table.

    3. Era scaling.
    In my mind, either all Settlers, Pioneers, and Colonists should get era scaling, or none of them do. This will prevent a sudden jump in cost, and since settling early is much better than settling late, I am not sure if era scaling the cost is necessary at all.

    4. Advanced start eras.
    If the starting era is later than Ancient, should all settler units be more expensive? Advanced start gives free buildings and population to settling, so I guess the logic here is that the increased cost is to cover these. However, the whole idea of the free buildings and population is to get the game going quicker, to account for a sizeable chunk of turns missing from the start of the game. In my opinion, this cost increase for advanced start eras should be removed.
     
  20. corona88

    corona88 Chieftain

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    Put different scaling for standard and huge map. Problem is when pioneer or colonist cost more than any wonder.
    Questions is how expensive should be. Maybe should be some max cost?

    Scaling is bigger problem on huge maps. Sometimes not worth to build pioneer even if you have nice spot for city, because is too expensive.

    Settlers have good scaling. maybe pioneer should be x3 settler cost, colonist x5.
     

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