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How to maximize Science?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by RoboEmperor, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    If I moved any city one tile in any direction they wouldn't be within the Industrial Zone's AoE. That's the main theory/concept of what I did. Sacrifice optimal city locations in exchange for one IZ to cover the entire nation. Despite the low population, because of that one maxed out IZ in the middle all of them built research labs in 19-40 turns. Count how many tiles each city is away from the IZ in the middle. It's exactly 6. So moving them in any direction would put them outside the IZ's AoE.

    I don't know whether optimal city location is better than insane IZ efficiency but what I do know is that once I got that factory up I ran out of things to build really quickly on all of my cities which is why they were doing campus research. The vast majority of my science is from science buildings enhanced by policy cards so getting those buildings up faster seemed like the better option than having a higher pop city. So my cities weren't really cities, they were just science buildings built by the production of the capitol's factory. Which is why they were maxed out on science and commercial buildings despite being 3 or 4 pop.

    I hit GDR at the same turn as you did but you had science CS while I didn't so I think for just pure science rush what I did is more optimal.

    I need to learn how to do the Magnus Grand tour so definitely gonna look into that. One thing at a time, now that I'm done with the build order i'm gonna learn the fancier stuff.

    I did not know that was a thing. Time to learn what Government Plaza is!
     
  2. MrRadar

    MrRadar Chieftain

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    As far as I can see, only Seoul would be left out, but it has helluvalot choppable tiles and hills to mine to compensate, not a tragedy. Others could easily be moved on to a river with a slight district rearangement for better results.


    Yep, your thinking about getting necessary districts and buildings is right, but right placing of cities to let them benefit from Rationalism earlier is helpful and for faster building the answer so far was chopping. And mining. Until this patch, that today we've learned more about. Chopping will have to be reconsidered, but what's clear now that the importance of builders and tile improvement skyrockets. There will be much more production in the improved land and it seems IZ regains at least some of its former glory.

    I found my science CS quite late, the most important early stage was played not knowing about a single CS. And I have an unhealthy penchant for coastal cities and harbours, which cost me turns, I know that, but can't help it. And my map was so convenient for coastal cities. So I veered off the optimal course, as usual. Fast guys can get Science Victory in the region of 150-160 turns, on standard maps, plus minus, so it must be possible to hit Robotics accordingly, especially with Korea.
    But you have to turn to Game of the Month subforum for more professional write-ups.
    Anyway, now, with the new patch, a thing or two will change.
     
  3. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    Could you link me to one such write-up? : )

    I can't beat turn 250 right now. But if the pros are doing something like settler stealing and early conquest for 20 cities, I'm not really interested. I get my jollies turtling until GDR because there's more cities to roflstomp. Winning the continent in the first 100 turns kinda feels like I won already so no point in continuing.

    edit: Took a note at the patch notes. BARBARIANS CAN NO LONGER MAKE GDRs. That one. That one is the one I care about. It was such BS but glad they removed it!
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  4. incroc

    incroc Chieftain

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    I tried your challenge @RoboEmperor, and got Robotics at t177. I forgot to screenshot after that, but around t187 I had all the upgrade techs. Think I settled 12 cities and took a couple from Rome cause he stole my spots. Flipped one Canadian city my way as well.

    With the Greeks rather than Korea, not sure what's fastest. Culture speeds up the game a lot, so Pericles is in for a shout for being one of the fastest.

    I reckon sub-170 is definitely doable if I focus properly, and better players could likely get sub-160. Better players on optimal maps sub-150 maybe.

    Got Political Philosophy around t55, Exploration t98 I think, Enlightenment around t110, Suffrage on t143 and Globalization maybe t155. Settled 3 cities early, then expanded rapidly after Ancestral Hall around t66-68.

    Built Pyramids, Oracle and the Colosseum. Later I wasted some time building the Bolshoi Theatre. Then Big Ben timed to buy GDR's. Bought 5, which was more than enough. Never really used them before.

    Good map though. Can't be so relatively peaceful and at the same time fast if you're forward-settled early. Settled my first expo towards Rome, cutting him off. That helped a bit, but had to bribe him with Horse to avoid trouble.

     
  5. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    T177 is fantastic! Could you go into more detail?

    What's the build order of your first city?
    What's the build order of your 2nd city?
    What's the build order of your 3rd city?
    What's the build order of all of your rapidly expanded cities?

    I just don't understand how you got all of your science, culture, and money buildings up fast enough to make a profit when you produced 12 settlers.

    Why did going greek help you?

    Please go into more detail so I can copy you exactly! I really want to do this in a game : (

    And if culture is truly the fastest path to science then I can go Sweden and get Nobel Prize!
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  6. incroc

    incroc Chieftain

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    Early game it's close to and inspired by the strats posted by @knighterrant81 and @Jerovich in the Early game guide thread. Always culture first at least until I've secured the Enlightenment civic.

    First city built a scout, settler, monument but switched to builder then settler upon scouting a good Pyramids spot. Then finished Monument and made Builder x2 and Granary in some order. The capital had no great early improvements. Other times with e.g. a stone, a horse and a wheat I'd definitely make an early builder for the cap so two early builders (one went to city #3 to chop Pyramids).
    After that Government Plaza, Ancestral Hall, Settler x4 (mainly chopped). Made two units in there somewhere as well. At least make one slinger for the Archery boost. After that I built Acropolis, Amphitheatre, Campus, Library, University. I made sure to have the Campus up in time for the Recorded History boost. Think I bought an Art Museum in the capital, which was stupid. It's much better to buy buildings in the bad cities, and buying two amphitheatres trumps one museum I think.

    Second city built a Monument, Campus (for the State Workforce boost), Oracle (chopped). Followed by Acropolis, Builder x2, then 3 Heavy Chariots, Amphitheatre and Library. I also bought a builder in this city right after settling it.

    Third city built Pyramids (chopped with builder made in capital). Then Monument, Granary, Acropolis, 3 Heavy Chariots, Amphitheatre, Campus.

    Maybe the order is a bit off in those queues, don't recall exactly. Roughly correct.

    Fourth city was Entertainment Complex, Arena, Colosseum, Monument, Granary, Acropolis, Amphitheatre. Finished Colosseum t86-88.

    Pyramids completed t4x, Oracle t5x and Colosseum late in the 80's. All those timings are slow if the AI really wants a wonder. I've seen Pyramids go t3x a couple of times - which is too early to compete for it. With good scouting, you can look around the AI land to see if they're making your wonder so you don't waste hammers if they are (most relevant for the Colosseum as it require 6-7 chops).

    I went for Magnus x2 first, then Pingala to Grants. It worked out quite well timing-wise. Magnus first assigned to Pyramids city to chop it out. Then re-assigned to Oracle city and chop that out. Then re-assign to capital just in time for chopping out Settlers. Pingala was then in my Oracle city all game, and I made plenty of farms for that city to grow to 10 asap. I was very liberal with making builders in this game, aimed at never working an unimproved tile. Later I promoted Liang to the bottom, and she jumped around making city parks for amenities (extra +5% yield if the city is ecstatic vs happy).

    All my other expansions first builds were Acropolis then Monument or the other way around. After that it varied quite a bit, the ones with mountains made campuses. The ones on the coast with 0 adjacency made some other stuff. I even made a Water Park later on, which was wasteful.

    The second age I got a golden age and had Goddess of the Harvest, which is key to be fast, so bought the remaining settlers with faith. At that point I had 7 cities and they were all settled to block the AI as well as possible, so the remaining spots were safeish. I did lose a couple of spots still though, had 15 city center pins planned. Some of the cities sucked balls, but still held their ground in the end I think. If you settle before t100, even the no fresh-water, no aqueduct city is worth it (Pharsalos).

    Technology doesn't feel that important to me early in the game. I tend to juggle around in the tree to make sure I get as many eurekas as possible. I did beeline and hard-tech Masonry when I found a Pyramids location. After that towards Writing and Bronze Working, but the AI killed all the barbs so struggled to get the boost. Didn't clear a camp until t100. Lux tech like Irrigation when needed. Aimed for Apprenticeship asap, then Stirrups then Education. Tried to hold off on Edu until I got a great scientist, but lost some turns making crap in two cities. Don't think it was worth it.

    Civics I went roughly for Early Empire -> Political Philosophy -> Drama -> Feudalism -> Exploration -> Enlightenment -> Opera and Ballet -> Suffrage -> Globalisation. I was suzerain of 9 or 10 city states I think when I got Globalisation, which is 45-50% extra science. You get an envoy when finishing an Acropolis, so maintaining good CS relations is easier with Pericles. I also went out of my way to solve their quests. I had double Acropolis bonus, double Campus bonus, Rationalism and the equivalent culture one running all game. Perhaps it might be better to go State workforce before Early empire, but this way it's easier to get the inspirations. I lost out on the +15% wonder production for the Pyramids, which could've made me lose it if someone else was in contention.

    Rome was boxed in by me early, so some war was inevitable. Especially after he stole my planned fifth expansion which was an excellent location and kept sending settlers towards "my" turf, one of my scouts had to spend countless turns blocking one of them. I attacked him with Knights on t9x and took a couple of cities and got a nice peace deal. Wiped him out with Cuirrasiers when he DoW'ed later in the game. Some eurekas require a bit of combat, so even if you don't take a lot of cities a small war helps. Kill a unit with a Knight, Kill a unit with a Spearman, have 3 Armies etc.

    I only really hard-built two settlers, they rest were chopped or bought (and came with free worker). The free worker always chopped in the new city to get the infrastructure up and running.

    Gold is rarely a problem, I just sell all my resources. I even moved my initial settler for 3 turns so I could settle on a lux hill I had in vision. Sold it immediately for a crap price (like 90 gold), but that allowed me to purchase an early builder. There's a difference between the AI's: Mongolia in this game paid around 200 gold for 20 horse and 20 iron all game, while Poland and Canada paid good money for Diplomatic Favour. Make sure to see which AI gives the best deal, a lux can vary from 4-5 gpt to 13-15gpt. I also sell one of the works from the first Great Writer. At that point I rarely have an Amphitheatre, and just one spot in the Palace. That's around 22-23 gpt.
    To get the science up there are no secrets I think. 10 pop with rationalism and +3 if possible, always work the specialist slots. I had two science CS as well, they help a lot. Without those, a couple of hundred beakers would be gone. But whether the output in the end is 800 or 1200 it's not what I think about. It's more important to have good numbers early and hit as many eurekas as possible. I made a bunch of Campus Research Grants too. All the small details add up, in a sense it's the essence of the game.

    Pericles makes the early game easier. Extra policy means flexibility: If you want to buy tiles or make builders or chariots, there's room for the desired policies without losing out on something vital. You also get a pantheon without sacrificing production. +5% culture pr suzerain is great. And the Acropolis ensures a great jump in culture when the wave of expansion is out, it only cost about the same as a Monument at this stage of the game.
    However, he is more map-dependant than Korea. Without any mountains or fissures, the campuses suck. You really really want +3 or more.

    I took a lot of risk placing campuses beneath volcanoes this game for adjacency, forcing me to spend turns repairing later after the inevitable eruption. I also took a lot of risk going for three early wonders. Finally, I took risk bribing Rome to keep my puny army out scouting. There was a window early in the game where he could've set me back a lot with a Legion attack. There's also risk with getting the good pantheon. Without it, I would've aimed to chop out settlers in some of my newer cities, but that would've delayed everything.

    You need room to expand to make it work, which isn't a given. It feels to me like I can always get my second city just in time before the AI gets his fourth. But if the AI settles the third city right on your doorstep, any fastish development requires war. With certain AI's, you also know you're gonna be DoW'ed all game if you don't wipe him out. Like Alexander or Chandragupta, awful neighbours. Maybe it's just the luck of the draw, but fractal maps seem easier to me than Pangea. Some of the starting spots on Pangea are incredibly cramped. Still, Rome, Canada and USA all had lousy land, so had I drawn one of those locations it would've been hard.

    Playing this way will sometimes get you a cultural victory by accident though, which is a bit annoying. I deliberately delayed flight, but still ended up winning a CV not long after I got Robotics. I cba selling great works just to avoid winning. If the patch nerf culture victories I'd be happy.

    Man that ended up too long. I'll have to work on being succinct.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  7. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    I just don't understand what's going on.

    Seowons get +50% from rationalism 100% of the time where as non-koreans get it very rarely because +3 is really hard to get on a campus. So by this logic I should have the same science as you have without globalization because I get the +50% from rationalism instead of international space agency.

    I never worked the specialist slots. Maybe that's my problem. Instead of building commercial hubs I should've been moving my pops to my specialist slots.

    Iunno, maybe one day I'll get it. Maybe I'll focus on culture this time a lot more. Do what victoria suggested, focus on great writers and build enough amphitheaters to house the works.

    I'll give it another try. Thanks man.
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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  9. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    I give up. I did a no holds barred playthrough and I got upto 15 cities with war by turn 150. I did the Magnus Grand Tour to spew out settlers until there was no space (built 9 settlers by turn 100). I got 2 science CS late (turn 200+). I put pops in specialists slots after research lab is done. And you know what the turn number I got? 244. A lousy11 faster than my 10 city thing which probably would've been lower if I had done the magnus grand tour on that run.

    Unless someone gives me a yt video of a non-outdated, GS science victory video, I give up. I think I could've gotten faster if I did build some ampitheatres, but then again I couldn't even get 6,000 gold by turn 244 so I doubt it. My goal was simply turn 200 GDR.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
  10. kb27787

    kb27787 Chieftain

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    t200 GDR?.... Are we talking about deity? (might be a bit harder) or on settler (where you just play sim city? and try to get science?)
    I guess it's doable... 200 turns is a lot of turns in the current expansion... I suppose we just buy the unit once the tech comes? (probably with faith with grandmaster's chapel, maybe easier than gold)

    That and specific CS (Geneva, Babylon) help a lot... other science CS prolly not worth beyond 6 envoys.
     
  11. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    I'm talking prince or king right now. Deity will obviously delay the timing.

    I think I found all of the big science boosters

    Natural Philosophy as Korea
    Rationalism as Korea (important note, Campus BUILDINGS only)
    Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein (Einstein alone gives more than 100 beakers per turn)

    The above combined will make universities give like 19 science per turn.

    Then we have
    Science CS (each CS gives 100 or more beakers per turn)
    International Space Agency (+5% science per suzerain)
    Powered Research Labs (it's like 14 science each. Doing industrial project to power these gives more science than Campus Research project (great people points not included))

    Yeah the Suzerain thing is huge because it's global instead of just per building. That's what my misunderstanding was. So everyone was right, culture boosts science like crazy but only at the end.

    It is however disheartening that 3 of the major boosters are entirely luck dependent (Einstein, Science CS, coal or oil to power Research labs, and the forests to chop to construct it)
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  12. Jerovich

    Jerovich Chieftain

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    Hello RoboEmperor!

    I've been watching your tread for a while since it contains interesting things. I'll give my 2 cents for a fast science victory, or a fast GDR develop, as you like :thumbsup:

    If you go 'semi-tall', aim for 10 - 12 pop 10 cities. If you go totally wide, go for 16 - 18, even 20. Increase those numbers by 25% for each scientific City State below 2 you know - and of course suzerain, or at least 6 envoys.

    Go for 15+ pop on your main Spaceport city. Those citizens are supposed to mainly work mines or river mills. If there aren't enough mines, search for another emplacement that has got enough.

    A fully developed encampment in that city is essential - 15% more production toward space projects policy. Aim for 10 trade routes at least - better 15 - all of them from your capital with the +2 food +2 prod per route policy.

    Invest hard on both science and culture. The main goal is to reach Democracy and Rocketry more or less at the same time - so you can begin space projects with all those routes boosting your production.

    Don't settle/conquer cities that can't build a +3 campus unless they're so good for other reasons - luxes, already built districts, etc.

    Build only the essential districts/buildings aka fully developed campuses, comm hubs + market and theatres + amphitheater. 2 harbours are fine for Cartography eureka. Don't bother with banks nor museums, they'll slow your victory. Exception is one archeological for the inspiration and eureka. After that, put all science specialists to work and run science projects on all your non-core cities.

    Regarding power, try to fully build 2 industrial zones, firstly with coal plants, finally reconverted to oil ones. They'll trigger a few eurekas. Try them to cover most of your cities, and power the rest with solar farms - they'll come soon after Research Labs are built, don't worry.

    For the final push. Liang and/or Magnus are your friends (if you hard build the Spaceport). Reyna is your friend (if you have 7200 gold to buy it). And Pingala is your best friend (30% toward projects).

    Aside note: Government plaza Tier 3 building, Royal Society will allow your workers to spend all their charges (more prod the more charges they have) in city projects.

    Hope it helps, feel free to ask anything else. I'm sure I've left a lot of details somewhere :crazyeye:
     
    incroc likes this.
  13. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    '

    I'm playing as Korea so I will always have +4 adjacency. Also going semi-tall with 10 or less cities (I only build cities that can be covered within 1 industrial zone)
    1. How do you grow pops to 10-12? I'm struggling at 4-7 except my capitol and 1 or 2 other cities. Half of them are tundra or desert, the other half are ocean and hills. I thought about internal trade routes but each trade route is like 15 coins per turn lost.
    2. I'm going Seowon->Commercial->Theater but the theater comes online too slow for it to matter. If I go Seowon->Theater->commercial, half my cities don't hit 7 pop so that's a lost commercial.

    Yeah so pop is what's dragging me down right now. Can't build districts cause of it and can't trigger the 10 pop rationalism.

    Once again hit turn 250 GDR.
     
  14. Jerovich

    Jerovich Chieftain

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    Don't be afraid to put them close to your cities for +3. Sometimes they're better there for a number of reasons (you needn't to buy a tile, or just the adjacency to mines and/or farms is better with that +3 spot).

    Going for a fast science victory implies MORE than 10 pop 10 cities, not less. I've written about this in the post above.

    Being in range to a power plant is nice, but not strictly necessary. So you better only settle/conquer cities that can build a +3 campus. Solar Farms or Wind Mills will solve your power problems for those final turns that you have Research Labs.

    A simple Bananas tile - with its jungle - chopped with Magnus will insta-grow a 7 pop city into 10. Wheat, cattle or sheeps from 8 to 10. You don't want ANY city above 10 except your Spaceport city. Reason? Managing amenities. If you can achieve ecstatic lategame cities they'll generate +10% of ALL yields, including science.

    Practice forward-settling the AI, this will grant you better spots for your cities. Also conquering them is also a viable option.

    Pre-democracy internal trade routes are way better than foreign ones. Just head them to a full-of-districts-city and enjoy the +2/+4 food and +2/+4 production.

    Don't try to think of a pre-established order for districts. This is TOTALLY dynamic. In your first cities you'll want a fast district for state workforce inspiration, probably a campus, or encampent if going for a really early war.

    You don't need a second campus until Recorded History - your science will be good enough that you'll have to hardly trigger eurekas before their techs are researched.

    You DO want 2 Commercial Hubs AND 2 Harbours to meet medieval inspirations and Cartography eureka. You need as well a strong culture infrastructure to reach Democracy at the right time.

    ALL OF THIS before your 3rd campus. Trust me, you'll need it if you want to achieve a fast victory.

    Then, as a standard rule, try to have built campuses on almost all your cities by turn 100 or so. Buying Libraries and chopping Universities is a good thing in your less productive cities.

    Saving money for the lame game is also recommended. Buying some Research Labs, Power Plants and the Spaceport if possible (thanks Victoria) will shave some turns from your victory.
     
  15. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    I know, but as a one-city player for Civ5 and CivBE, managing too many cities is too stressful for me. I'm keeping it 7-10 for simplicity's sake. If the earliest I can get GDR is turn 250 because of this so be it.

    It's more for the production AoE for faster research labs. And to give me a reason to stop at a certain number of cities. "As many cities I can fit under one IZ" sounds like a solidly reasoned number rather than something arbitrary.

    And did not know there were Tile Improvements that gave power! Thanks dude, this helps a LOT. For the final push I can picture myself going 3 specialists and power tiles.

    Ohhh so that's how you guys are doing it. You guys chop resources once you hit 7. But because of aforementioned specialists and power tiles I doubt I can stop my pops from starving back down to 7.

    My concern was actually hitting 6,000 coin the moment robotics completes. But I guess I could wait until his 4 upgrade techs are researched first before I buy it. GDR without its siege upgrade is quite worthless on the offensive. I'll give domestics a try. I'm thinking 1 trader per city going to a Magnus city for the extra food.

    I'm one of those guys who can't play without an algorithm. It is a little frustrating but there's a reason I can't do improv. I'm a planner not a do it on a fly guy.

    Right now I just don't understand the theory of culture. Like, everyone on this thread says prioritize culture before science. There's a guy who hit turn 189 GDR by going greek and maxing culture. But I just don't understand why. Is all that science lost going culture and non-korea made up with that Suzerain card? I need someone who knows the math to show me some math T_T

    I think it has something to do with the Eurekas. So many people saying trigger Eurekas. Maybe that's what I'm doing wrong. I'm researching non-eureka'd techs too much and I should be using that time developing culture. But still, how do you guys hit 1,200 culture?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  16. incroc

    incroc Chieftain

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    I always try my ultimate to recruit the GP I want by running projects or buying with faith/gold. If at all possible. You can look up the order they arrive, and pass on the crap ones to get the good ones. The early ones just go, like the +1 for all Libraries. But I think Newton and Einstein can be gotten with some planning almost always.

    I also settle atrocious cities on top of strategic resources later in the game if need be, like down in the snow or on some remote island. In the aforementioned GDR game I played, I settled two cities to get Uranium, and sent a builder over to a City State to make a mine for him.

    Science CS are just luck though, nothing to do. Sometimes you get great CS, sometimes they suck. And sometimes they enable completely new strategies, like getting Alcazar, Moai or Nazca lines.

    Chops as well are a bit lucky, but you can also prioritise max chops when placing cities and planning what do use them for.

    Overall, the very very fastest will always be a combination of luck and skill. But you have resources available to influence a lot of stuff during the game.
     
  17. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    I hit 800 beakers with only 8 cities, 2 science CS, and 2 lategame cities solely for coal. Still only turn 250 GDR but that's because I had a BS war. Scotland's newly settled city blocked two of my ideal city spots for 40 turns and while I was trying to raze that city (walking through a Hill map is hell) Caesar attacked me from the polar opposite side making me get my troops all the way back to the opposite side of my nation and reclaim my lost city and end the war and then go all the way back to scotland and raze his stupid city.

    And then at the final stretch a spy blew up my coal power plant. I even had a counter spy there. And that delayed my research a few turns as well.

    Case in point if everything went perfectly I shoulda hit like 230 GDR.

    I did the Magnus Grand Tour for research labs instead of settlers (had my early towns spend 20 turns creating a settler) and that's what boosted my science to the 500 beaker range.

    @incroc
    I did what you suggested and maximized great scientists and I got everyone. hypathia for library, isaac Newton and Einstein for University.

    At this point I think the only way I'll improve is if someone does a KOREA run and give me their GDR number and the build order of every city he built so i can understand how to balance culture and science, and have definitive proof that prioritizing culture is better even as Korea.

    At this stage my theory is simply that incroc is a better player than me and was able to conquer 20 cities by turn 120 or something and that's why he's dwarfing me. Nothing else. Just skill, not culture prioritization or anything.

    Moderator Action: Edited to comply with site policy regarding use of inappropriate language -- Browd
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2019
  18. incroc

    incroc Chieftain

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    800 beakers is very good I'd say, especially in a game with some problems along the way. Good job :)

    Once the fundamental numbers look good, it's just a matter of some practice and the turns fly off. At least that's my process.
     
    Victoria and PatchesSnatches like this.
  19. kb27787

    kb27787 Chieftain

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    prince or king... hmmm...

    I was going to try Aussie (with the right map I think they are really good) but I guess then people don't declare war on you or kill CS that much on lower difficulties.
    Extra housing from coast also makes it easier to have a higher number of tall cities. Korea obviously is really strong as well for half price campi. Sumeria? Persia with Granada?
     
  20. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    If you want to help me you should go prince and korea : )

    Obviously going higher difficulty will delay the GDR timing, but one thing at a time. First best possible GDR timing on prince and then we adapt to higher difficulties. All the way to deity if possible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019

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