How to use barbarians as settlers?

[opensilo]

Does anyone know the conditions under which the barbarians will form a city? Sometimes--usually when starting on my own island--I just can't get to a spot quickly enough with my own settlers because of maintenance costs. I don't want the AI (possibly via galleys) to get there either.

I notice that the AI/barbs will usually (always?) found cities in a blue circle. About a third of the time, that's where I'd put my city too. So, if I can find one of those spots that both the AI/barbs and I agree would be a good spot, maybe I can intentionally not lift the fog of war and get the barbs to found me a city.

This happened to me in one continents game when I was trying to quickly settle a vacant island soon after getting astronomy before the other AIs could get their settlers there. I didn't have enough troops to keep the whole island's fog lifted, and lo and behold: the barbs founded a city right where I wanted one.

Has anyone else tried this strategy with success?

 

[Zombie69]

Anyone who's played a Terra map has used this.

Otherwise, Barbarians are mostly useful to build up XP, but when they pop you a well-placed city that's a bonus.

 

[scooter]

Actually they usually don't put them where I want them. I usually get annoyed because I have to raze the city and rebuild it a square away so I can get that one extra resource or great square in my fat cross. On terra maps those barbarian cities have been known to reach huge sizes and even (though very rarely) build wonders! Check out the funny screenshots, there's a few huge barb cities in there you might have to do some looking though.

 

[JerichoHill]

Eh, if you want to have barbarian cities, here's what you do.

1) Carve out an area. Call it a "Wilderness Preserve" Ensure that no Civ goes in there, and its sufficiently outside your cultural borders that you don't encroach it.

2) Wait. And they will come.

 

[maltz]

I have not noticed any particular pattern that barbs spawn their cities.

There is a "difficulty related bonus and handicap" file that you can download from the "leader personality matrix" thread in the strategy article forum. There you can see the ratio of barbarian spawns in different difficulties. It doesn't say when and where they will spawn, just how many numbers are allowed to spawn.

Therefore, if you haven't seen any new barbarians city for a while, maybe the number is saturated.

It will be really nice if you can make them to spawn in places you want. Can you drop a gold coin or something?

p.s. The barbarians may spawn a city one sqaure only outside of your revealed area. If you strategically put a few sentries to disallow their other possibilities, then it is possible to reduce the barbarians' choices.

 

[scooter]

It will be really nice if you can make them to spawn in places you want. Can you drop a gold coin or something?

Just set it up in worldbuilder

 

[ownedbyakorat]

Eh, if you want to have barbarian cities, here's what you do.

1) Carve out an area. Call it a "Wilderness Preserve" Ensure that no Civ goes in there, and its sufficiently outside your cultural borders that you don't encroach it.

2) Wait. And they will come.

Or, to make it even shorter:

"Don't build it, and they will come"

 

[Zombie69]

There you can see the ratio of barbarian spawns in different difficulties. It doesn't say when and where they will spawn, just how many numbers are allowed to spawn.

Therefore, if you haven't seen any new barbarians city for a while, maybe the number is saturated.

I very much doubt it's a total number per game. Much more likely, the number specified is the odd per turn per "unfogged" tile.

 

[maltz]

I very much doubt it's a total number per game. Much more likely, the number specified is the odd per turn per "unfogged" tile.

Yes exactly. It is a "ratio" between the fogged tile and the number of spawns.

 

[ChicagoCubs]

I count on the barbarian cities in the new world on Terra Maps and the Earth scenario. I take one settle and defenders to establish a beach-head city. Then I will use my assault troops to "settle" much of the rest of the continent.

 

[Crighton]

What kills me is when i allow a barb city to grow and some crumbsnatch comes in and conquers it before i choose to, thievs i say

 

[scooter]

Just capture BEFORE it grows and it'll grow quicker when you get it. The barbs (Jericho Hill could tell you for sure) seem to have a growth/production/science/everything else penalty similar to the AI on levels below Noble. Plus the more it grows, the harder it is to take.

 

[T34]

I've had a war against barabrians before, its not nice at all, they had about 6 cities on one continent, seemed to spawn about 5 units a turn and they also had promotions. Weight of numebrs turn my tech advantaage in their favour.

 

[opensilo]

My basic thought was that the location would have to be some place that no other Civ could get to: like your cultured-off backyard, or the more likely case of an isolated island start. Also, I'm thinking of locations that I have the ability to put a sentry near, but the strategy would be to withhold the sentry so that a barb city would form for me. (Not Terra or hugely sparse starts, because I don't have the capacity to observe the squares so there's no strategy; the barb cities form because no one's watching.)

I'd also have to be sure that there's a blue circle where I want the city, then only leave that blue circle unobserved.

My experience says that barb cities only form when you can't see any of the eight tiles that surround the city center. This would mean that you could keep those nine squares unobserved, or even more as long as no blue circles are surrounded completely by fog.

But as others have posted, they usually don't agree with me about where the blue circles should be.... Every once in a while, though.

 

[The Tyrant]

I notice that the AI/barbs will usually (always?) found cities in a blue circle. About a third of the time, that's where I'd put my city too.

I've noticed the same in most games. They usually end up in pretty decent spots, even if it isn't exactly where I would have settled. The only time I've noticed a defined pattern was when I was playing one of the all-grass scenarios. They settled in a definite pattern, left to right along the bottom of the map, then started filling in the next row up, then the next, etc. Also, they settled so that there was no overlap of the fat crosses. By the time I won (taking out the AI opponent, not the barbs), the barbarians had about 20 cities, had built the Pyramids and were sending about five axemen or swordsmen per turn against my city nearest them.

 

[maltz]

My experience says that barb cities only form when you can't see any of the eight tiles that surround the city center.

Actually, I have had a few experiences that a barb city is immediately visible after they are founded. This means at least some of their tiles goes into my visilibity range. I can't see their city itself, but I can see the surrounding "black culture".

 

[frankcor]

Don't build it, and they will come"

::rimshot::

I've had a war against barabrians before, its not nice at all, they had about 6 cities on one continent, seemed to spawn about 5 units a turn and they also had promotions. Weight of numebrs turn my tech advantaage in their favour.

For sure, their human wave assaults can overwhelm superior troops. I've lost "beachhead" cities more than once. I try to settle the new world with at least two galleons full of assault troops, one full of catapults along with my longbowman-worker-settler ship. And I try to have 4 galleys ready to upgrade to the required galleons on the turn that Astronomy comes in.

I can't see their city itself, but I can see the surrounding "black culture".

I'm dyin'

 

[cabert]

Actually, I have had a few experiences that a barb city is immediately visible after they are founded. This means at least some of their tiles goes into my visilibity range. I can't see their city itself, but I can see the surrounding "black culture".

i've had some experience of this too, but i couldn't see any black tile, only the black line next to a visible tile

 

[opensilo]

i've had some experience of this too, but i couldn't see any black tile, only the black line next to a visible tile

That's been my experience too. I know when the city is formed, because I can see the outer edge of their cultural boundary, but not any of the city tiles.

I can't see their city itself, but I can see the surrounding "black culture".

Perhaps this niche strategy should be called barbsploitation.

 

[cabert]

Perhaps this niche strategy should be called barbsploitation.

The subtility of this strat is timing:
you must wait until the city comes to size 2,
you must conquer it before an AI does!

Quite often, it's a bitter fight to conquer it just in time, because it keeps pumping out units and that can be a real pain .