I don't know if the Pueblo is still a no go. It was a no when they would have been at a point that they needed to act quickly. Knowing the concerns of the decedents asking to use their representation now vs. asking then is totally different. Of course, it still offers considerable barriers, but I don't think the blindsided "no" (which they don't actually need the permission for anyways) is the final nail in the coffin.
I admire Ed Beach and his team for respecting the wishes of the Pueblo people. I would be really, really disappointed to see them double back on that decision. I can't see them taking that route so soon after BNW, no matter how much I'd love to see the Pueblo.
I admire Ed Beach and his team for respecting the wishes of the Pueblo people. I would be really, really disappointed to see them double back on that decision. I can't see them taking that route so soon after BNW, no matter how much I'd love to see the Pueblo.
I have a feeling it was the Tewa people who objected strongly to Popay being in the game, not the entirety of the Puebloans (who speak more than one language, there's Hopi (Uto-Aztecan family), Tanoans (includes the Tewa, Kiowa-Tanoan family), Keres (Keresan family), and Zuni (language isolate).
The Tanoans and Keresan Pueblos are pretty isolationist and wary of outsiders learning their language from what I can tell. Maybe the Hopi and Zuni are similar, but I'm not an expert on that. One of my former Professors (who's a White American) did his fieldwork among the Hopi and he thought Firaxis were idiots for thinking of putting the Puebloans in a video game.
I admire Ed Beach and his team for respecting the wishes of the Pueblo people. I would be really, really disappointed to see them double back on that decision. I can't see them taking that route so soon after BNW, no matter how much I'd love to see the Pueblo.
I'm sure they would respect them, but there's the slight possibility the Pueblo council have changed their minds, if unlikely. I.e. they may have haf some general associations with 'video game' (GTA new Mexico!) that have become more nuanced? Or it could just be a more general objection.
I'm sure they would respect them, but there's the slight possibility the Pueblo council have changed their minds, if unlikely. I.e. they may have haf some general associations with 'video game' (GTA new Mexico!) that have become more nuanced? Or it could just be a more general objection.
since we have multiple leaders why not make a "North American Indian"-civ with different leaders from different tribes? (sorry if this sounds dumb/ignorant, i'm not very informed about the topic )
In a completely different vein - what would be a notable native American group with a notable female leader? As that could influence Firaxis choices given what we've seen. A little googling puts Awashonks as a solid candidate, but I'm not sure the Sakonnet have much of an impact as a group.
Edit: Queen Aliquippa of the Seneca tho there doesn't seem to be much about her besides meeting George Washington. Awashonks led her people in a (failed) rebellion against the colonials, which seems to fit Firaxis bill.
In a completely different vein - what would be a notable native American group with a notable female leader? As that could influence Firaxis choices given what we've seen. A little googling puts Awashonks as a solid candidate, but I'm not sure the Sakonnet have much of an impact as a group.
Woman Chief of the Crow is the first one that springs to mind--but she'd have some heavy overlap with Tomyris as "horse-riding warrior queen." There's also the Lady of Cofitachequi, but her rule seems to have been an abysmal failure and she lacked the support of her people.
Woman Chief of the Crow is the first one that springs to mind--but she'd have some heavy overlap with Tomyris as "horse-riding warrior queen." There's also the Lady of Cofitachequi, but her rule seems to have been an abysmal failure and she lacked the support of her people.
Yes. And she apparently wore a lot of low-quality pearls. She's chiefly noteworthy for being the only female leader he encountered; otherwise she wasn't terribly significant. Cofitachequi was in a dismal state when De Soto encountered it, and fairly or not its people seemed to blame the Lady of Cofitachequi for their misfortunes.
Yes. And she apparently wore a lot of low-quality pearls. She's chiefly noteworthy for being the only female leader he encountered; otherwise she wasn't terribly significant. Cofitachequi was in a dismal state when De Soto encountered it, and fairly or not its people seemed to blame the Lady of Cofitachequi for their misfortunes.
What language did the Cofitachequi speak? A Muskogean one or something related to Catawba? I don't think they left behind substantial archeological remains. They were based somewhere in present day South Carolina, if I remember correctly?
I've read before that the Shawnee had female chiefs. Not sure if any of them are well attested. Also the Powhatan had a few female leaders. I listed a few of them (female North Amerindian leaders) in one of the older threads here.
In a completely different vein - what would be a notable native American group with a notable female leader? As that could influence Firaxis choices given what we've seen. A little googling puts Awashonks as a solid candidate, but I'm not sure the Sakonnet have much of an impact as a group.
Edit: Queen Aliquippa of the Seneca tho there doesn't seem to be much about her besides meeting George Washington. Awashonks led her people in a (failed) rebellion against the colonials, which seems to fit Firaxis bill.
Toypurina of the Tongva (coastal California) was one of the only Native American female chiefs to lead a revolt against foreign powers in North America, but the Tongva aren't a big group likely to be represented in a civ game.
I suggested an Iroquois civ led by Jigonhsasee in the suggesion forum a while back.
She, the Great Peacemaker and Hiawatha supposedly founded the Iroquois Confederacy. She was known as the 'Mother of Nations' and provided refuge for travellers of every tribe.
What language did the Cofitachequi speak? A Muskogean one or something related to Catawba? I don't think they left behind substantial archeological remains. They were based somewhere in present day South Carolina, if I remember correctly?
I've read before that the Shawnee had female chiefs. Not sure if any of them are well attested. Also the Powhatan had a few female leaders. I listed a few of them (female North Amerindian leaders) in one of the older threads here.
I don't know what language the Cofitachequi spoke. Perhaps something Muskogean or Siouan (like Catawba). The Powhatan (and their successors) did have some female leaders--including Powhatan's granddaughter--but it would be a shame to choose one of them over Powhatan himself.
I suggested an Iroquois civ led by Jigonhsasee in the suggesion forum a while back.
She, the Great Peacemaker and Hiawatha supposedly founded the Iroquois Confederacy. She was known as the 'Mother of Nations' and provided refuge for travellers of every tribe.
Oh that seems like a really good candidate there - ala what they are doing apparently with the Indonesia. Honestly, she might be top of my likely odds for NA leader/civ addition now.
For some reason I thought Hiawatha was 'the great peacemaker'. I didn't realize they were two different people.
While I'm disappointed that the Pueblo will most likely not be in Civ 6, I can fully respect the decision. Considering the struggles the First Nations have faced since the Europeans arrived its not surprising that they would want to be more protective of their culture. I applaud Firaxis for respecting their decision, there are game companies that would go ahead with adding the Pueblo even if they had objected.
I still hope to see the Inuit, its still possible that they would be included. Having a Civ that's fully focused on tundra expansion would be interesting.
7 Civs(possibly more) will ultimately be the amount of DLC Civs for Civ 6 before a major expansion.
We've gotten:
Poland,
Australia,
Persia,
Macedon,
Nubia,
Khmer, and,
Indonesia.
Civ 5 had 6 Civs released as DLC before a major expansion. Note that I didn't include the Aztecs or Babylon as they were pre-order bonuses. We can expect a minimum of 9 Civs in the first major expansion. I personally expect at least 10 since with this being a new game and all we can expect the bar to be higher.
Civ 5 had 6 Civs released as DLC before a major expansion. Note that I didn't include the Aztecs or Babylon as they were pre-order bonuses. We can expect a minimum of 9 Civs in the first major expansion. I personally expect at least 10 since with this being a new game and all we can expect the bar to be higher.
I'm guessing they might stick with 9 but add 2-3 alternate leaders as well. We'll have to see though, they do tend prefer to do new civs over leaders (likely because the leader is likely the majority of time investment in the civ creation anyways).
I'm guessing they might stick with 9 but add 2-3 alternate leaders as well. We'll have to see though, they do tend prefer to do new civs over leaders (likely because the leader is likely the majority of time investment in the civ creation anyways).
They probably will use alternative leaders as a way to give vanilla Civs abilities that use the expansion new system, e.g. if they add a Colonies system they would give Spain a new leader with a bonus to colonies.
Other northeast tribes would be the Mohicans and Mohawk. The Americas had numerous indian tribes. I would like to see a DLC made up of only tribes. It would be interesting,I think.
I wouldn't mind seeing the Sioux in Civ 6 due to them being one of the largest, influential, and iconic Native American groups. The one concern that I would have with them is the lack of actual names for their villages apart from a handful like Kaposia. I suppose that it wouldn't be so unreasonable to use the names of different tribes/bands for city names (such as Oyateshicha and Magayuteshni which were under the Mdewakantonwan sub-tribe).
I do understand the reasonable concern that many people here have that the Sioux would take a slot away from another deserving group so I wanted to ask if its reasonable to think that we could get a few more North Amerindian groups in Civ 6? If Europe can get 10+ civs then perhaps it wouldn't be so far-fetched to eventually have a reasonable number (maybe 6 or more) of North Amerindians groups that can more closely represent the cultural areas shown here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nativ...ia/File:Nordamerikanische_Kulturareale_en.png
I admit that it could be a bit greedy/naive of me to think that would could officially get that many groups in the game, but I can't help but be excited about the possibilities of Civ 6 where we can have the Iroquois, Powhatan, Sioux, Cree, and a few others in one game!
I'm loving the idea of Jigonhsasee leading the Iroquois and the diplomatic bonuses that she could bring. Its sounding like, if you have to have a female leader for a Native American civ, Jigonhsasee is a top tier choice. I've become really excited for the idea of Powhatan getting into the game since he's quite an exceptional leader. I was hesitant at first since I love playing TSL maps but I'm learning that TSL shouldn't be everything and it wouldn't be a big deal to move the capital slightly to make room on a TSL map if need be.
One more thing I was curious about is the possibility of a Californian culture group becoming a civ. Some groups like the Chumash, Pomo, Coastanoans, etc. seem like they could be good choices but I'm having a hard time finding any really fun leaders. One of the few leaders I found was Xigmacse from the Coastanoans of San Francisco and he was only notable for having wives that came from the other end of the bay area and (based on the -cse ending in his name) that he was of a distinguished status. Its quite a shame that the Spanish didn't write down why he was so distinguished. Toypurina isn't looking so bad by comparison.
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. An LA named 'Mother of Nations' that gives an envoy/CS bonus is VERY low-hanging fruit.
