Now before you shoot me I should say, in combo with artly units, I have waged an early war, cause I have my own continent, to get iron, so I land 6 galleys with 6 speamen and 6 catapalts each in a stack of doom, and trust me those artly greatly help mny chances even with the 1 attack of a speaman, I use their defense to smash there offense and artly then spearmen to smash their defense, it's a rather good combo believe it or not.
I use defensive units for offense! 8)
- Thread starter fephisto
- Start date
Ronald
Emperor
5 galleys with 6 catapults, 2 spearmen and 2 archers would do equal or better and would enable you to achieve the same result quicker!
Higher Game
National Socialist
Most people don't know how dangerous an offence with defensive units is! Play as the Zulu with 1 move for movement and the other for pillaging. When you destroy their economy and mobility, send in swordsmen for the kill. 
The Carthaginians have Nubian Infantry, right? I don't have PTW, but a 2/3/1 spearman is definitely a deadly unit.
The Carthaginians have Nubian Infantry, right? I don't have PTW, but a 2/3/1 spearman is definitely a deadly unit.
Rone/
Chieftain
The Carthaginians have Numundian Infantry with a 3/3/1, extremely deadly during ancient times because you receive it early, and it is good for leading the charge, and defending the homeland
Angmar
Warlord
I will often attack with infantry. Specially if the war is on my borders. Of course my infantry is always backed up with Artillery. Its a slow crawl, but you never have to worry about exposed weak units 
Stack of infantry with artillery will smash almost anything out there. However a couple units of cavalry are good to throw into the mix for pillaging
Stack of infantry with artillery will smash almost anything out there. However a couple units of cavalry are good to throw into the mix for pillaging
Civanator, wow, at least you know what the f-ck you're talking about.
All you guys had to do was look up Numidian Mercenary at CFC's PTW Units list. But instead we got people sayin' Numundian and givin' them the same stats as the legionaires. Come on now.
Besides that, aren't catapults seen as a joke? Heard that they hit the target like 1 out of 5 times. Maybe not.
All you guys had to do was look up Numidian Mercenary at CFC's PTW Units list. But instead we got people sayin' Numundian and givin' them the same stats as the legionaires. Come on now.
Besides that, aren't catapults seen as a joke? Heard that they hit the target like 1 out of 5 times. Maybe not.
DaveMcW
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
- Messages
- 6,489
Catapults have 4 attack power, so they do hit early units quite often. The joke is not the AP, it's the movement rate. They are the only unit that doesn't advance after attacking, making their movement rate in a war zone an average of 0.5
Cannons suffer from the same mobility problem, so artillery is the first useful offensive bombard unit. The ability to build railroads to the war front is more useful for artillery than their 2 range!
GerrardCapashen
Benalish Master-at-Arms
Using infantry and artillery in combination is a slow but effective way to capture enemy cities, but it is so slow that it's rarely possible to deal a killing blow to a civilization unless you have multiple stacks, say 4 stacks each with 15 infantry and 10 artillery. Then you can actually capture some territory fast enough that the other computers aren't rushing through the Modern Age and gaining a huge tech lead while you pump out infantry/artillery to crush your neighbor.
black_adder2
M.C. 900ft. Jesus
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2001
- Messages
- 69
You know, I for one am of the school that ALL bombardment is useless IF it is compared versus an additional offensive unit.
In other words I would rather be attacking your city with 5 cavalry rather than 3 cav and 2 arty (yes arty even, not cannon).
I have lost too many battles where my elite cav dies to a regular musketman, but weakens him to 1 where another cav unit to follow up the charge would win.
Plus like eveeyone said, the cannon and catapults are sooo hard to move, I wind up having to expose them sometimes after a close battle and loose them.
The ONLY time I make cannon is when one of the dumb AI start bombarding a town of mine with 12 ships... I will plink them with a cannon - cause the dummies will retreat the ship that has 1 damage all the way back home (which as you know can be HUGE time on a standard or larger map).
So basically I use them as nuisance stoppers... which cannot be shot back at unlike if I build 1 ship there.
Otherwise whenever I capture one whilst invading and conquering, I turn them into free production for the temple I am trying to crank out in that newly aquired city
In other words I would rather be attacking your city with 5 cavalry rather than 3 cav and 2 arty (yes arty even, not cannon).
I have lost too many battles where my elite cav dies to a regular musketman, but weakens him to 1 where another cav unit to follow up the charge would win.
Plus like eveeyone said, the cannon and catapults are sooo hard to move, I wind up having to expose them sometimes after a close battle and loose them.
The ONLY time I make cannon is when one of the dumb AI start bombarding a town of mine with 12 ships... I will plink them with a cannon - cause the dummies will retreat the ship that has 1 damage all the way back home (which as you know can be HUGE time on a standard or larger map).
So basically I use them as nuisance stoppers... which cannot be shot back at unlike if I build 1 ship there.
Otherwise whenever I capture one whilst invading and conquering, I turn them into free production for the temple I am trying to crank out in that newly aquired city
Yzman
Deity
Yes but with artillery weakening the defender to 1 HP you have a much greater chance of not loosing all of those calvary to the defender. Espeically infantry. Also people make the mistake of bringing 1 or 2 arttilery. you need a t least 10 to make them worthwhile. What difficulty do you play on?
Ninakoru
A deity on Emperor
Think of artillery as a strategy unit.
Try to take down a metropolis with infantry guanding it using the so loved calvary. With a Stack of 10 calvary and 4 infantry to back them up, you have very low chances to take down those infantry with +100% defence bonus... Maybe you can be able to take that city maybe loosing 3 or 4 calvary, and having seriously damaged nearly all the others IF YOU ARE LUCKY
Now if we go with 3 calvary, 3 infantry and 8 artillery... we can drop that metropolis to a town and put their defenders to red in maybe 2-3 turns, and take the city with MINIMAL loses... Maybe 1 calvary if you are no lucky
Calvary units are great. 3 movement, they can retreat (half the times they retreat, if the enemy unit does no have only one point ANd if they are not a fast unit too... so the retreat hability is not so so good...)
Try to take down a metropolis with infantry guanding it using the so loved calvary. With a Stack of 10 calvary and 4 infantry to back them up, you have very low chances to take down those infantry with +100% defence bonus... Maybe you can be able to take that city maybe loosing 3 or 4 calvary, and having seriously damaged nearly all the others IF YOU ARE LUCKY
Now if we go with 3 calvary, 3 infantry and 8 artillery... we can drop that metropolis to a town and put their defenders to red in maybe 2-3 turns, and take the city with MINIMAL loses... Maybe 1 calvary if you are no lucky
Calvary units are great. 3 movement, they can retreat (half the times they retreat, if the enemy unit does no have only one point ANd if they are not a fast unit too... so the retreat hability is not so so good...)
NetGear
King
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2002
- Messages
- 729
In Civ II, I truly use Defensive unit for offense. I used to surround all city squares so that city couldnt support the units. Once the population fell to 1, the republic/democrat govt could only support usually one unit from shield generated in city. That was the easiest way to take out a city if you didnt want it.
In Civ III, Defense-wise, I use stacks to move in my artys and bomb the bezesus out of the city. Once population falls to 1 and barrack is destroyed, I take one full turn dedicated to lowering unit HP and attack full force with my mobile unit, just like what everyone seems to be talking about. This usually works alot better than pure mounted unit rushes, but it is alot slower because of arty's movement of one.
In Civ III, Defense-wise, I use stacks to move in my artys and bomb the bezesus out of the city. Once population falls to 1 and barrack is destroyed, I take one full turn dedicated to lowering unit HP and attack full force with my mobile unit, just like what everyone seems to be talking about. This usually works alot better than pure mounted unit rushes, but it is alot slower because of arty's movement of one.
NetGear
King
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2002
- Messages
- 729
Originally posted by Ninakoru
Think of artillery as a strategy unit.
Try to take down a metropolis with infantry guanding it using the so loved calvary. With a Stack of 10 calvary and 4 infantry to back them up, you have very low chances to take down those infantry with +100% defence bonus... Maybe you can be able to take that city maybe loosing 3 or 4 calvary, and having seriously damaged nearly all the others IF YOU ARE LUCKY
Now if we go with 3 calvary, 3 infantry and 8 artillery... we can drop that metropolis to a town and put their defenders to red in maybe 2-3 turns, and take the city with MINIMAL loses... Maybe 1 calvary if you are no lucky
Calvary units are great. 3 movement, they can retreat (half the times they retreat, if the enemy unit does no have only one point ANd if they are not a fast unit too... so the retreat hability is not so so good...)
3 calvary? wow thats a small force... I often encounter approximately 3 infantry per city, so if calvaries can't destroy one each aren't you left off with infantry to do the job? In mass regicide even AIs build 2 dozen infantries on where the king lives.
Retreat option is still good. Especially when city is guarded by two dozen infantries, even your 80 or so arty wont do the job of lower all of them down to 1hp. about 1/3 of infantries usually are still in the 3hp range and even then they might actually win against a fully rested calvary, so retreat + artillery further minimizes losses.
GerrardCapashen
Benalish Master-at-Arms
Infantry have just as good an attack value as Cavalry, and if you are dragging Artillery all over the place, you don't need extra movement. You should stop building Cavalry and start building Infantry because they are just plain better even while attacking because they can guard your artillery effectively. If you want your stack to get anywhere without taking forever, take 10 infantry 20 artillery and you will get great results.
Ninakoru
A deity on Emperor
I am totally disagree. Both units have 6 offense, but one has 3 times more mobility and can retreat before dying. When talking about attacking exclusively, calvary is much much better than infantry.
Infantry are more polivalent units, same attack power, much more defence, but think you and bombard 2 squares away a city and take it down THE SAME TURN with calvary. So if they counter-attack your infantry forces, it's hard tu finish them
off if they retreat...
When replaceable parts is researched by the civs, calvary becomes more of a tactical unit than a high power attack unit. You must wait for Tanks to go through rushing
.
joycem10
Deity
after the discovery of replaceable parts i will never buold cavalry again. My attacking stacks will consist of around 5-10 infantry and 15-20 infantry.
on the first turn move your arty to the edge of your cultural borders (which will usually be within range of an enemy city. and bombard. kepp 2-3 defenders with the arty and move the remaninder next to the city. on the next turn bombard again and take the city with those infantry.
i usually will not attack unless all defenders are down to one hit point (which is not too difficult with 15-20 arty) usuing this stategy you can count on relatively minor losses which helps war weariness. you can usually take one city every 2 turns with this method.
when attacking defenders with one hitpoint retreat is not an option anyway. In addition, by this time the majority of the world should be railroaded anyway so the manueverability advantage is negated. so why waste your shields on a non-upgradeable unit which is a poor defender.
the only times when cavalry is useful in this period is when your cultural borders are more than 2 tiles from an enemy city. move 3-5 cavalry up with the arty into range on the first turn and use them to attack the second.
of course it is also good for pillaging.
on the first turn move your arty to the edge of your cultural borders (which will usually be within range of an enemy city. and bombard. kepp 2-3 defenders with the arty and move the remaninder next to the city. on the next turn bombard again and take the city with those infantry.
i usually will not attack unless all defenders are down to one hit point (which is not too difficult with 15-20 arty) usuing this stategy you can count on relatively minor losses which helps war weariness. you can usually take one city every 2 turns with this method.
when attacking defenders with one hitpoint retreat is not an option anyway. In addition, by this time the majority of the world should be railroaded anyway so the manueverability advantage is negated. so why waste your shields on a non-upgradeable unit which is a poor defender.
the only times when cavalry is useful in this period is when your cultural borders are more than 2 tiles from an enemy city. move 3-5 cavalry up with the arty into range on the first turn and use them to attack the second.
of course it is also good for pillaging.
Michael York
On Sabatical from Civ
i don't build many additional cavalry, but I do build enough to allow me to properly support my artillery and infantry. I use a survivors as mop up forces once i get tanks. sometimes that extra move point is the difference between taking a city and ending a war a day early or progression of war weariness
GerrardCapashen
Benalish Master-at-Arms
You don't get the benefit of railroads while in opposing territory, so the movement advantage of cavalry over infantry remains while you are in enemy territory. Also, you don't need the retreat option if you have 4-hp veteran infantry attacking a city that has been bombarded below size 6 and has all its defensive units redlined. Cavalry are ok for pillaging but then they can be caught out in the open and destroyed by the enemy's forces. Overall, infantry are far better, enough that you no longer really need cavalry.
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