Idea of a new building

Rhye

Rhye

's and Fall creator
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I'm trying to stop the units spam editing city AI, thanks to Blake, but it's a very complicated problem.
So, I could for now limit the early units spam, which is caused by another factor too: there aren't enough buildings, and AI is forced to choose a unit to train.
The solution would be adding at least a couple more.

One should be without prerequisites, and I have no idea about what it should be. And you?

I've got an idea for the other one: the Tax Office.
Available with currency, it will take the effect of courthouses. While courthouses will only retain the stability bonus, which seems more appropriate. Do you like this change? Do you think that moving the maintenance reduction to currency will have an effect of the way the game is played?
 
Tax office is a horribly dry name for a building. How about leaving the courthouse alone and adding a governers residence or some such building for the stability boost.

As for the other building, what other problems are there that could be solved along with this one? Two birds with one stone style.
 
Tax office also seems to advanced for so early. I'll just chuck a few down to generate some names for potential additions.

How about....

Toll House - early financial building.

A town square - and early construction that's really simple to build but effective in generating a community spirit - i.e. stability

An inn - again, in a hamlet or village, these were the main social gathering places and could be a stablising force in a community or work in a financial role or as a happy face generator.

Town watch - again, seems perfect for a stability bonus.

A fountain - health bonus.


As Enkidu Warrior said - if you can tell what effects you want the building to have, I am sure something appropriate can be found.
 
How about just a general build command, which would be called Infastructure ? This would represent upgrading, and maintaining buildings within' your city to modern standards, and would improve stability gradually.
 
TheAmerican said:
How about just a general build command, which would be called Infastructure ? This would represent upgrading, and maintaining buildings within' your city to modern standards, and would improve stability gradually.
Click to expand...

Kinda like the wealth "building"? That could be nice if we can dedicate cities to "build" stability.
 
Yeah good idea.... again the focus is on the AI understanding that.
 
I would like a new building that reduces city maintenance, as it can get pretty horrific later in the game on a huge map like this, but I think courthouses effect should be left alone. Although it may not be necessary, since the plague is doing a good job of taking care of the unit spam.
 
Tax Office seems to me a good idea, perhaps Town house as another name (where the mayor houses ;))?

Other missing buildings:

Bath house: They are present in Rome (Thermae, and thus mediterranean and European culture), Turkish and Arabian customs (Hammam ;)), Greek had Gymnasiums which were somehow an equivalent. But I'm not sure if we need another Health bonus (plague?).

Museums: They are lacking and are very important, but I'm not sure what effect they could have (stability due to creating identity?).

Squares and many of the other minor things mentioned don't suit imho, as they are too small (come on, fountains, inns?) and squares are represented by Markets.

A building without prerequisits is really hard to find. We of course have burial mounds, but they are quite boring imho. We could add something representing the often not possible agriculture, like canals/irrigating system, but that of course would have agriculture as a prerequisite. But the only civs starting are Egypt, Babylon, India and China and I think it would be viable to give them all the tech (if they don't already have it all).

Other idea would be the long disputed Pagan Temple/Cult place (could go along with a reshapement of the religious system, prophets creating religions, not the other way round ;)). This would be somehow realistic (Jewish Rome, Greece? no thanks), would need quite some adjustement (only works with Paganism, etc. ...) and it obviously would need Mysticism or so which you do not want.

That are my two cents
 
Yeah, quite a good idea, I sometimes find myself building units in excess just because there aren't any more buildings to build (I like the way the last few words sound ;), but anyway :p).

** Like righteously said by mitsho, a "Bath House" (or any variation of the phrase Bath x) would work quite well. Baths would work well for ancient civs aswell, bath houses were common in ancient Iraq (Mesopotamia), and were also there in medieval Iraq (the Abbassids). Thats when talking ancients, for medieval times, baths would be common basically in every Islamic city so it would work for medieval Arabia, Turkey, Persia and Egypt. Of course not to forget Rome which also adopted baths later.

** Another thing that comes to mind is an ancient market (for God's sake find a better name, but moving on...), I really don't need to express myself about markets, doubtlessly they existed since man was created ;).

** Potter's Shop, comes with pottery and the wheel, would add wealth possibly. Would fit well for the ancients, which is the main reason we want to implement a new building.

That's it from me, I'm sure you guys will find even better suggestions ;).
 
To reduce early unit spam a little, I would suggest introducing a new Proces (Wealth, Research and Culture are of the Process type) that is available from day one.

Call it Idleness (or something much better ;) ) and give it a conversion rate of 10-20% to all 3 available proces categories (wealth, research and culture).

This will effectively give a 30-60% conversion rate which will still leave the later Processes far more effecient (100%) - even if more specialized.

I have been using a similar model in my own mod and the AI is making good use of it. Seemingly without any extra AI tweaking being required.
 
How about with a growing population you have to actually build the homing districts (i.e. neighborhoods). If you don't build the necessary amount that would lead to the more homeless, leading to unhappiness. Maybe if you build too many vacant lots that would lead to crime, thus less stability.

EDIT: Also, we could try to fit in an employment feature, possibly new buildings.
 
mitsho said:
Squares and many of the other minor things mentioned don't suit imho, as they are too small (come on, fountains, inns?) and squares are represented by Markets.
Click to expand...


Are they? I've never in all my years of playing thought so nor seen anything to suggest that is true.

Actually, all of the above are extremely important but very simple social buildings. Not sure where you live, but there are plenty of towns across the world whose town square is still integral to the social bonding and feeling of belonging. Generally, nothing actually happens there, but people congregate for religious festivals, special occasions and the like. It may well be simple, but it is a very important construction that is easy to overlook.

Fountains are also a mark of civilisation. Rome was world famous for its fountains. Providing fresh, running water to all and sundry cuts down health problems and allows a larger population to live in a smaller area.

The Inn... well, just look at pubs now - still vastly important places from society's perspective.


The truth is that these are all easy to overlook, but actually when you acknowledge their importance to society, there's no good reason for them not be there. You may have intellectualised it by grouping them with the market, but I dont think that's a logical step of assumption, or why would we have a variety of buildings in Civ that all could be randomly grouped into larger structures. Perhaps also you didnt notice that Rhye indicated that these need to be early buildings.... not things like museums and bathhouses which naturally come later with better construction skills.



Prestidigitator, did you mean a Bazaar?
 
Spearthrower said:
Are they? I've never in all my years of playing thought so nor seen anything to suggest that is true.

Actually, all of the above are extremely important but very simple social buildings. Not sure where you live, but there are plenty of towns across the world whose town square is still integral to the social bonding and feeling of belonging. Generally, nothing actually happens there, but people congregate for religious festivals, special occasions and the like. It may well be simple, but it is a very important construction that is easy to overlook.

Fountains are also a mark of civilisation. Rome was world famous for its fountains. Providing fresh, running water to all and sundry cuts down health problems and allows a larger population to live in a smaller area.

The Inn... well, just look at pubs now - still vastly important places from society's perspective.


The truth is that these are all easy to overlook, but actually when you acknowledge their importance to society, there's no good reason for them not be there. You may have intellectualised it by grouping them with the market, but I dont think that's a logical step of assumption, or why would we have a variety of buildings in Civ that all could be randomly grouped into larger structures. Perhaps also you didnt notice that Rhye indicated that these need to be early buildings.... not things like museums and bathhouses which naturally come later with better construction skills.

Prestidigitator, did you mean a Bazaar?
Click to expand...

First, Bazaar is just an "Oriental" word for Market, like Forum is the Roman word, or Agora the Greek one.

Second, inns, fountains and town squares may be important, but they are aboundant everywhere. They are just below the level of a simulation like Rhye's and Fall of Civilization. They are meso- or mikro buildings, not large institutions like most other things. (I'm not happy with some buildings existing, I agree).

Let's take a look at your suggestions. Fountains: you explain their function with "bringing Fresh water", open to everyone. Now, where's the difference to Aquaeducts? I think we can safely say fountains are represented by Aquaeducts (which only really existed in that form (!!) in the Roman Empire).

Town Square: Ok, this one does make sense, it is an institution provided by the central government. But is it necessary? I mean what is a market/grocer, mostly these squares are also the Market squares (I think I can ennumerate quite a number of cities where this is true) or else in connection with something else, a monument, a Church, a Town Hall, etc. ... I thus state that the effect of a Town square is taken up by those whereas my suggestions aren't (and if you read my whole post, you'd known that I also made suggestions for early buildings).

Inns: Inns are restaurants, pubs, hostels, ... "buildings" found everywhere on their owns. The only place where they are supported by the state is not in cities but on land routes/voyage routes. Of course they have a social function, but I think we should look at the things on a brighter level - and you might guess it - they are found mostly around squares and share their primary effect with them, Either one is represented by the other.

At last, I didn't want to get personal, my post wasn't meant bad or anything, don't take it personal.

mitsho

Edit: I just looked at your original post again:

spearthrower said:
An inn - again, in a hamlet or village,
Click to expand...

Do you get what I was trying to say?
 
I think adding a building or 2 would solve some issues. Perhaps a town/city hall?
 
@ Mitsho

Sorry - I wasnt taking anything personally and didn't mean to indicate that I was! ;)

Bazaar is, I believe, an Arabic word but in English it has connotations of a simple market, or a general market (i.e. not a Fish Market, or a Clothing Market but one which sells a variety of goods)


Dictionary Definition:
1. A market consisting of a street lined with shops and stalls, especially one in the Middle East.
2. A shop or a part of a store in which miscellaneous articles are sold.
3. A fair or sale at which miscellaneous articles are sold, often for charitable purposes.


I agree that the aqueduct is necessary for the fountain, so I am going to take a step back and say..... *drum roll*.... a Well! ;) A very early building that takes only a few turns, but satisfies the "stop the AI building too many troops" requisite. It's a bit of a lame duck though, I admit! :D

On the town square, every one that I know (from the U.K, Italy, France, India, Thailand - places I've lived) they were never a market square but really just either an open space, or ringed with either town buildings of residences / private property. In some places you'd see restaurants and hotels, but for the most part they act as a central park area more than anything - even when there's not even grass there. This one I am more seriously arguing for than the others.

While you are right that the state did not create and run Inns for the most part, there are countless buildings already in the game that would also fit into this category. It's something to basic to a town - serving travellers and visitors food, drink and lodging - that I think it worthy of adding.


EDIT: Cemetaries are good... they certainly make the place smell better! ;)

EDIT 2: How about Paved Roads or Cobblestone Roads or somesuch road improvement - meaning roads IN town.
 
A military training ground.
In the ancient and classical times, the bulk of armies was made up from infanrty (melee units), Roman Legions, Greek Hopliets, Macedonian Phalanx,... In the Middle ages this changed to cavalry.
So, we add a training ground that gives +2 XP to melee units (like the stable does for cavalry) and it could go obselete with feudalism.
 
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