If Babylon was your neighbor...

[flairin]

Curious which Civ you would like to be playing as? I'm not certain how often the AI is inclined to plant the G Scientist as an academy as Babs, but this could be quite scientifically lucrative if you are playing the right Civ against them and they are your neighbor.

I got this idea last night after capturing a city from another civ (no, not Babs) that had an academy. Luckily when I puppeted the city it was working the tile of the academy (this doesn't always happen and so not much you can do unless you annex).

So we know that a) Babs is formidable early game due to their archer unit plus walls and b) that they will certainly spawn a very early G Scientist. Curious what civ would be best able to not only take out their capital (assuming it has an academy) but benefit most from it? It seems as if Rome would be a good choice if could get Mathematics early enough (I could see 3 ballistas, plus several scouts as dummy targets plus warrior or spearman to capture city), or perhaps the Huns even earlier.

Also, is the AI good at planting their Great People on their tiles or is it kind of hit and miss?? And is it true that some AI civs may be more inclined to plant their Great People than others?

 

[flairin]

I was also thinking ahead when the next expansion is released. Babs could very well be an easy target for Assyria. Imagine those special units going after Babylon early game (with academy)... frightening 1-2 punch with the free tech and all

 

[Browd]

In the hands of the AI, Babs isn't very good about even researching Writing on a timely basis. Many a game I've met Nebby well after turn 35 and he still can't buy my embassy.

Korea would probably benefit most from a captured academy, given their UA (+2 science from Great Person tile improvements). Not the best civ to take the city in the first place, but get them to Comp Bows early enough and Babylon will fall as quickly as any other AI capital.

 

[flairin]

Good to know... I'll prob use t40 as an indicator when to strike. Should know if researched writing if they can share an embassy I think. I've been focusing writing late myself recently.

Gonna test with Rome, then Korea

 

[Browd]

Embassy purchase capability is the easiest way to verify whether an AI has researched Writing.

 

[joncnunn]

AI doesn't know how to use Babs UA.
It is however better about building the Babs UU and UB.

So it's basically no big deal to out science the Babylon AI; but Babylon isn't the best target to rush.
(After everyone has Composites, the Babs UU won't matter, and Cannons will make large holes in the Walls of Babylon)

Korea though is the science civ the AI knows how to use. For them if planning a military offensive, you'd want to time it early before they can build their (land) UU.
Korea does though on certain maps have an exploration disadvantage; it's not on water maps as those tend to feature coastal paths to everyone without going thru ocean, but instead its on continents. Korea can't send a Caravel to the other continent but either has to wait for each and every civ on it to send a Caravel over or else build Frigates (or with G&K Privatters). That's only one tech deeper, but Navigation is expensive and G&K nerfed Great Scientists so it's no longer a free tech.

Edit:
Actually there is a very simple solution in G&K if your one difficulty level higher than normal and don't want to face a DLC civ while learning that level (while keeping choices random). Just click on DLC and disable the civ you don't want to face. But as stated above, Korea is the monster science one to disable in the hands of the AI.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

babs is sadly a pushover in my games, especially at deity. less than 50% of the time do i even need to bother with him as a neighbor cuz someone else already did, usually on their way to me, haha.

 

[flairin]

babs is sadly a pushover in my games, especially at deity. less than 50% of the time do i even need to bother with him as a neighbor cuz someone else already did, usually on their way to me, haha.

I found this out last night (I play on emperor usually). I kept waiting for them to research writing and it was like around t60!! WTF! I guess they bulbed their GS.... would not be surprised if they just deleted it. Very disappointed cause I really wanted to take Babs out with an academy. It was a waste of my time... I think maybe this trick may be better used on the Maya (perhaps they can use their Great People better?)

I guess you never know until you play around a little...

 

[DudewiththeFood]

If they do decide on an academy then wouldn't China be best. The extra GGs spawning citadels capturing their academies while instantly making any attack by Babylon on you much harder for them.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Yeah, the hard part is to make AI plant the damn academy. Wiping it out is easier. Doesn't really matter which civ, IMO. CB's will crash everything if you have enough of them. I'd build 8 instead of 6 and expect to lose one or two (or maybe three, oh no! ) to WoB. Reasonable price for big city with academy so early in the game. Any civ with better meatshields has an advantage, I guess. Persia especially in GA, Celts, Greeks. Ballistas are nice but they can't survive by themselves and require lots of melee/range units to support them. Resource-wise CB's rush is just cheaper. And China is always an excellent choice for warring.

Btw, has anyone tried to take over Babylon with academy and build NC there? I've never been in situation like this. Could be interesting scenario.

 

[flairin]

I took Babylon out at t65 with 3 ballistas, two warriors, two archers, and a scout... the only unit I lost was a scout. Their walls were up, they had three of their archer units, two warriors, and two catapults. Their city defense was at 22. One of my ballista units took shots from their city and two of their archer units and still survived!! Plus a couple insta heals to the take, but like I said before, no damn Academy!!

What would happen to the NC in such a case?

I like the Persia idea if no hills or rivers as well as the GG, though u could do the GG trick with any civ if you go for the free policy one. Though I'm likely to stick with a mix of Liberty and Tradition

 

[The Pilgrim]

I took Babylon out at t65 with 3 ballistas, two warriors, two archers, and a scout... the only unit I lost was a scout. Their walls were up, they had three of their archer units, two warriors, and two catapults. Their city defense was at 22. One of my ballista units took shots from their city and two of their archer units and still survived!! Plus a couple insta heals to the take, but like I said before, no damn Academy!!

My experience based on immortal, so it's possible I underestimate ballistas' effectiveness in this scenario. Although every time Nabby was my neighbor, I had to deal with pretty stupid amount of archers before I could reach the capital and ballistas are not very good at it.

What would happen to the NC in such a case?

Nothing would happen. I just thought about building it in Babylon instead and not in capital. If you go Liberty, you have two early academies in NC city. Potentially pretty strong.

I like the Persia idea if no hills or rivers as well as the GG, though u could do the GG trick with any civ if you go for the free policy one. Though I'm likely to stick with a mix of Liberty and Tradition

You mean GG from Liberty finisher? I wouldn't waste it on that. Natural GG is born pretty quickly anyways.

 

[Jelster]

You mean GG from Liberty finisher? I wouldn't waste it on that. Natural GG is born pretty quickly anyways.

Or the GG you'll generate taking the city.....

It it possible that, if I took a couple of capitals, I could end up with an NC in all of them, depending on when I actually took the capital. If so, do they stack ?

The game I finished last night, England was still building an NC around T140....

 

[flairin]

No, the super early GG through Honor tree. I would never take it from Liberty and am about as likely to spawn one from Honor since I never use Honor, though you could get a super early GG that way

 

[Browd]

It it possible that, if I took a couple of capitals, I could end up with an NC in all of them, depending on when I actually took the capital. If so, do they stack ?

The game I finished last night, England was still building an NC around T140....

Sadly, all National Wonders, including NC, are destroyed on city capture.

On the "capture Babylon's academy" point, played a game not long ago where I delayed attacking Gandhi when I saw a Great Artist walking around. Sure enough, he landmarked it and I DOWed the next turn. Of course, on gold focus, puppeted Delhi refused to work that tile.....

 

[The Pilgrim]

Or the GG you'll generate taking the city.....

That's much better option. On immortal + you can even generate one naturally before you reach the city.

It it possible that, if I took a couple of capitals, I could end up with an NC in all of them, depending on when I actually took the capital. If so, do they stack ?

No, NW can't be captured.

No, the super early GG through Honor tree. I would never take it from Liberty and am about as likely to spawn one from Honor since I never use Honor, though you could get a super early GG that way

Both options are equally bad. Some grinding before assaulting a city makes more sense. Although I'd rather sacrifice a unit than wait for GG, unless I'm China, of course, but then the waiting isn't long.

On the "capture Babylon's academy" point, played a game not long ago where I delayed attacking Gandhi when I saw a Great Artist walking around. Sure enough, he landmarked it and I DOWed the next turn. Of course, on gold focus, puppeted Delhi refused to work that tile.....

Yeah, landmarks suck. Without cultural buildings it's just +6 culture which you also don't get unless you annex and ultimately loose more than you gain.

 

[compwiz1202]

I found this out last night (I play on emperor usually). I kept waiting for them to research writing and it was like around t60!! WTF! I guess they bulbed their GS.... would not be surprised if they just deleted it. Very disappointed cause I really wanted to take Babs out with an academy. It was a waste of my time... I think maybe this trick may be better used on the Maya (perhaps they can use their Great People better?)

I guess you never know until you play around a little...

Speaking of capturing Mayan cities, there's one thing I never thought to check. If you capture a city with a UB, does the UB:

1. Automatically get destroyed?
2. Possibly get destroyed, but stay as the UB if it survives?
3. Possibly get destroyed, but change to the normal version of the UB if it survives?

Thanks.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Speaking of capturing Mayan cities, there's one thing I never thought to check. If you capture a city with a UB, does the UB:

1. Automatically get destroyed?
2. Possibly get destroyed, but stay as the UB if it survives?
3. Possibly get destroyed, but change to the normal version of the UB if it survives?

Thanks.

Depends on the UB. Religious, cultural, defensive and military buildings get destroyed upon capture. The rest have 66-75% probability to survive and turn into regular buildings they replace. So you can't capture a pyramid, but can, for example capture a paper maker which will become a regular library.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

slightly related, did they ever address the achievement of taking a Burial Tomb from Egypt? it seems many tried and never got it because it was auto-destroyed when you took their city with it. i dont know if it was a bug or not, but it was one of those frustrating consequences to taking a city. i never tried for it but only because i just dont take a lot of cities and i dont see Egypt as an opponent very often anymore.

 

[kirbdog]

I don't suppose it matters who you are. Pulling off the capture of Babs's academy early on, while not having to commit to being Babylonian yourself, is a best of both worlds situation.

Completely unrelated, but if you declare war when your neighbor has his great prophet wandering around in your borders, you can capture it and plant it as a holy site, so long as it has 4 charges left on it (unused). Very satisfying.