No rush - I am very busy with work and real life at the moment - that is why when I suggested this game I stressed there was no strict 24/48 rule and it should be a relaxed game.
However obviously we don't want the game to stall so if someone who is due to play doesn't post for several days we will move on to avoid people losing interest.
I am next up and probably can't play until Sat at earliest. And if the weather is good Sat I will have to go out and try to sort out my garden during the day so I may not be playing until the evening.
OK, pigswill. A vote for option 2 then. (I'm avoiding getting Meditation because I seem to recall that having it precludes/complicates a GS bulbing Astronomy; but I am by no means a bulb-path expert).
And yes, we have a lot of whip anger in quite a few cities...but we had to break some eggs.
We are about to get silver and gems as well as couple of Calendar Resources, so unhappy pop will not be a big issue.
I am ok with option 2 also. However, I think it is better to get all his gold and skip on Archery. We can sell another tech to him to get whatever else he know just before we DoW him.
OK, JC is gone. I'm pausing turnset at this point (only 5 completed turns of my set so far) to let everyone assess the situation.
We can continue right on into war versus Toku at this point. He's stronger than I thought would be (we're 1.5x his strength). Not sure our economy can sustain the war though.
I may be overthinking my turns and I know that they are dragging on, but I didn't want to declare on Toku w/o everyone having a look at game. Also, I'd be happy to let Clive take over at this point if he wants because if we go to war it might be a good time to let him have control.
Notes and saves follow
Spoiler:
(T0/T121/150AD)
Allocated EPs: 3 on Toku/1 on Just
Healed WE’s on the front via promos
Whipped WE in Coppertusk
Begged 40 gold from Just; put marker on Constantinople as reminder of beg turn#
Various OCD micromanagement because I just can’t stop myself!
IBT
Christianity founded in distant land (wasn’t Justinian)
Builds: Settler, 2 cats, WE, worker
(T1/T122)
Arretium (2 Archers) taken; no losses; gained 45 gold
Antium (1 Prat, 2 Chariots, 1 Archer) taken; lost 2 cats; gained 69 gold; killed nearby chariot and captured a worker mining the gold hill near Antium
[Note: existing improvements still intact in captured cities, Stone, Silver, farms]
Whipped monument in Cumae; started GLight; worker chopping there
Started MoM in Marblefur; 2 workers chopping there
1 Axe from Ravenna sent north to explore
IBT
Alpha completed; CoL next
Builds: monument Cumae, Axe
(T2/T123)
Still no gpt to acquire for resources. Could get Fish from Just but…waiting for gpt.
Toku has gotten curious and 2 of his archers are touring our lands near Cumae.
Our units converging on last Roman city
Traded Currency to Just for IW, Mono, Archery, 25 gold
Silk to Just for 2 gpt
Adopted Buddhism
IBT
Anarchy
GLight built somewhere/got 6 gold
(T3/T124)
Switched to TofA in Cumae for failgold
Adopted OrgRel
IBT
Anarchy
GG born faraway
Just has Monarchy
(T4/T125)
Changed research to Monarchy to trade next turn with Just
New city built on site D
Attacking Neapolis next turn
IBT
Just adopts HerRule
(T5/T126)
Traded Alpha to Just for Monarchy and 30 gold
Sold Mono to Toku for 40 gold
Fur to Toku for 2 gpt
Eliminated Romans-captured 3 workers/ no combat losses/ got 82 gold
I may be overthinking my turns and I know that they are dragging on, but I didn't want to declare on Toku w/o everyone having a look at game. Also, I'd be happy to let Clive take over at this point if he wants because if we go to war it might be a good time to let him have control.
I've just got home and due to train delays and a fair bit of wine consumed I won't be able to look at anything tonight
I should be having a quiet night in tomorrow so I wil pass some thoughts on tomorrow evening. I'd like to do some warring as it is something I want learn how to do better.
As you have only played 5 turns ShiVvV I am happy for you to play a few more.
So - I think
Suggestions to ShiVvV so he can play up to another 5 tomorrow / Friday
I will post PPP for my turns Friday evening
Digest / Discuss my PPP on Sat and I will start my turnset on Saturday evening
I am going to be quite busy Fri all day and Sat morning but if I get playing a few turns Sat afternoon / evening and get feedback I should have most of Sunday free to play and finish my turnset
OK - said I didn't have time to look tonight but I couldn't resist ...
2 very quick thoughts
1) We seem to have enough phants / pults to keep aggresive so very happy to carry on and plan war against Toku.
2) We have 13 workers. I always think I end up building too many workers in my solo games and end up with them being idle until I need them to build railroads to get better transport and more production from my mines / factories which is a waste.
But it looks like we have an awful lot of jungle to clear / forests to chop and quite a few unimproved tiles we are working . We have 13 cities so only average of 1 worker per city. Shouldn't we have a few more ? I normally don't have this many cities at this stage but I do feel we ar short of workers right now.
A few suggestions:
After finishing this current turn, switch the building of MoM to Rome. Then next turn whip the Monument in Rome and let the overflow go to MoM. With the available chops and the religion, it should finish the MoM faster than the Marble city. Marble city can go back to growing and building wealth.
New city (and Antium) should build a granary first. It has plenty of tiles to work with and the 3 tiles it can gain is not that great. So the priority should be growth., hence the granary.(Antium already have a religion, so no need for Monument. Also do not forget we will get to own the SH not too far into the future.)
Silkflood should get that market chopped and take back the cottage tile from NoFreshWater since it is more important to grow Silkflood to its max to run 2 scientists and 1-2 merchants.
Coppertusk is a priority city. So it should grow to its happy max asap. So take back the rice tile and let NoFreshWater use one of the Ivory tiles.
Anyways, there are just suggestion and do as you see fit but remember in order to improve the game, ask your self do I really need this building or anything else you are going to do next. Does a new city need 3 workers to improve the terrain when there is only 1 pop? May be one can go chop a few forest for the Silk flood and anther can build 2 mines for GoldenClam (Gold and Iron). I got to go , till tomorrow.
Finally finished. All good suggestions, Htadus, unfortunately I had completed the turnset before I saw it. My feeling on Rome was that it needed barracks/stable ASAP as soon as basic infra done.
Market for silkflood almost completed with chops--I just couldn't whip that poor city anymore. It's about tapped out on productive tiles now though.
Coppertusk was forced to produce Wealth for most of my turnset. I hated to do that since it's our stable city but it was my best production option for wealth.
My turnset is complete. Clive is up now.
Summary below
Spoiler:
T6/T127
healing/repositioning army
IBT
GProphet in Constantinople
T7/T128
healing/repositioning
IBT
Hanging Gardens built by Toku
T8/T129
land spotted off extreme northeast coast of continent
IBT-zzz
T9/T130
2 pop whip market in capitol
IBT-zzz
T10/T131
peace with Just expires
IBT
TofA built somewhere
T11/T132
138 fail gold for TofA
T12/T133
MoM completed in Marblefur via 2pop whip (I know)
T13/T134
will have stables in Rome and capitol also
IBT
Justinian founded Angora near Antium
We got CoL and Confu holy city is NoFreshWater
T14/T135
Spy completed in Ravenna/might help us to scout out Toku/cause mischief
Barb city of Hun is only 1 pop;can be razed by the WE if we want
Some noteworthies:
1. Ran no specialists at all this turnset. We have 17 GS points in Silkflood currently.
2. A number of turns we were losing gpt at 0%; this improved once market in capitol completed and army returned to our territory. Army is consolidated with Toku as target. I feel kinda guilty almost for not producing hardly any units at all during this set, but didn't see how could afford it. I hope that putting Coppertusk on wealth instead of units hasn't hurt our war chances. The AI's are catching up in power, and tech for that matter.
3. The good news is this turnset we only lost 2 catapults taking out Rome and captured 4 workers and 196 gold.
4. The MoM is ours.
5. Haven't seen need to revolt to HerRule just yet.
6. We are the only civ with marble, horses, and ivory on this continent.
Honestly, Justinian would be the easier target, but w/o open borders with Toku our only trade routes are with Justinian--just a thought. I saw what Toku had in two of his cities, marked map accordingly (info a couple of turns old now tho). Based on his power rating he has a sizeable number of units.
We have some axes on spawnbust duty--are we afraid of barbs at this point?, or should we let them settle cities and then take them later. Would be nice to have those axes back since we're a bit melee-poor. With this in mind I worked in 2 archers I think to free up some axes on MP duty.
Notes for next player:
1. The Buddhist missionary is heading to Cumae. Justinian has been helping us some with spread.
2. A spy is on the way to front from Ravenna.
3. Marblefur can go back to growing/producing Wealth once archer completes.
4. I left a 3 unit garrison in Neapolis as insurance against Toku.
5. Our Confucian missionary was heading to Washington just to insure the religion spreads.
6. The spawnbusting warrior down south can go do something else; border pop took care of the spawnbusting.
7. The worker in the forest tile south of the capitol is there to pre-chop the capitol forests for the GLib. We have a ways to go until Lit so pre-chopping may not be best use at moment, use your discrection.
Stack doesn't really need spears except as garrison units coz eles are better vs mounted.
Lots of happiness now .
We don't really need more wellies so we don't really need more stables. A few more cats to cover losses and some garrison archers should be plenty. Courthouses might be worth considering.
Good job ShiVvV and no worries about not seeing the comments. For future reference, try not building workers in size 1 cities. The capital and CopperTusk can build them in 2-3 turns.
I think we should not let this military advantage we have go to waste. So lets hit someone within next 2-3 turns.
Even though Justinian will learn Feud sooner than later, I prefer to take on Tokugava. The reasons are that if we go for Justi, he will pay for Toku to go after us, we are not big enough for 2 fronts at the moment and we can get Feud from Justi ,when he is down to a single city, for peace.
Also keep building units until we are completely done with Toku or until peace with Toku. We will be facing LB's when we war Justi. So we do need WE's and cats. Recommend to settle the next GG in Rome and build a bunch of cats there.
1) Folket -
2) TheSunIsDark -
3) Htadus -
4) ShiVvV - Played and posted
5) Sir Clive - Up
6 )Pigswill - On deck
OK - just got back, will go have some dinner then hopefully post some thoughts tonight ....
May be able to play a few turns tomorrow night if we are all in agreement but planning most of the play for Saturday evening.
The laptop seems to be slowing down a bit , hopefully it won't get unbearably slow as I am unlikely to be able to buy the new one for a couple of weeks.
Once we are agreed I am planning to play in 2 sets
of 5 turns and post after the first set ( unless anything unusual happens )
So here is a summary of situation / plan / questions about the first 5 turns
Current situation is 83g , +4 gpt , 0% science
We are at peace with Togu ( Cautious ) , Justinian ( Pleased )
Justinian will trade Meditation, Togu wont trade anything.
We have 13 cities - everything currently being built looks fine to me
We have 3 warriors, 13 axes , 14 Elephants, 2 spears, 12 cats
Building military - we have 1 archer, 1 Axe in the queue - eery other build is worker
of infrastructure
2 nearest Japanese citites have ( according to the flags )
Kagoshima - 3 archers , 1 axe, Nara 2 Archers
I agree that Toku looks to be a better target than Justinian .
I am guessing we could send a single stack of ( say ) 10 cats , 6 Eles, 6 axes, 2 spears
now towards Kogoshima first , then Nara and capture both quite easily.
However that would leave us 1 or 2 defensive units per city. Would that be enough to
defend with ? Or do we need to build a few more units before attacking ?
Justinian is unlikely to attack us so we only have to worry about Togu and even if he
is second in the Soldiers demographics he is only 2/3 of our rating.
I am inclined to take the first 5 turns to assemble the stack and move it towards the tile
1E , 2N of Neapolis in preparation to attach Nara first. we will have defensive bonus
from forest / jungle there were we don't against Kagoshima
Then make decision about when to attack.
Economy - should we stay at 0% research ? Can't really see that there is anything we
urgently need to research at the moment
Good job ShiVvV and no worries about not seeing the comments. For future reference, try not building workers in size 1 cities. The capital and CopperTusk can build them in 2-3 turns. I assume you're referring to Arretium here. Your point if well taken however with no good food tiles to work for growth until border pop I felt a worker produced at the front here would be better than producing it quicker but much farther away.
I think we should not let this military advantage we have go to waste. So lets hit someone within next 2-3 turns.
Even though Justinian will learn Feud sooner than later, I prefer to take on Tokugava. The reasons are that if we go for Justi, he will pay for Toku to go after us, we are not big enough for 2 fronts at the moment and we can get Feud from Justi ,when he is down to a single city, for peace. Also, if we go for Justi, we lose all foreign trade routes which we simply can't afford. Not to mention Toku having protective longbows later.
Also keep building units until we are completely done with Toku or until peace with Toku. We will be facing LB's when we war Justi. So we do need WE's and cats. Recommend to settle the next GG in Rome and build a bunch of cats there.
Please continue to comment on things I'm doing that you notice could be improved upon, Htadus. Your comment a few posts back about making sure to corral the workers in last Roman city really worked well btw. I found two workers out in the boonies clearing jungle using this suggestion.
You're right about granaries first before monuments if can already work good food tiles w/o needing border pop. I think I completely overlooked religion being present in one of those captured cities that I built monument in first.
Once we are agreed I am planning to play in 2 sets
of 5 turns and post after the first set ( unless anything unusual happens )
So here is a summary of situation / plan / questions about the first 5 turns
Current situation is 83g , +4 gpt , 0% science
We are at peace with Togu ( Cautious ) , Justinian ( Pleased )
Justinian will trade Meditation, Togu wont trade anything.
We have 13 cities - everything currently being built looks fine to me
We have 3 warriors, 13 axes , 14 Elephants, 2 spears, 12 cats
Building military - we have 1 archer, 1 Axe in the queue - eery other build is worker
of infrastructure
2 nearest Japanese citites have ( according to the flags )
Kagoshima - 3 archers , 1 axe, Nara 2 Archers
I agree that Toku looks to be a better target than Justinian .
I am guessing we could send a single stack of ( say ) 10 cats , 6 Eles, 6 axes, 2 spears
now towards Kogoshima first , then Nara and capture both quite easily. I would not split the stack, Clive. I would take every unit that is in our SoD and advance directly upon Nara. First turn entering the tile 1SW of Toku's two workers mining the gold, which we will cut off and can capture. The second turn advance onto the forested hill south of Nara. The third turn we'll be sacking Nara. The captured workers can sit under our stack and build combat roads if we need them. The proceed to Kagoshima along quickest route.
However that would leave us 1 or 2 defensive units per city. Would that be enough to
defend with ? Or do we need to build a few more units before attacking ? I left a modest group of defenders in Neapolis (our only threatened city) but we many very well need an additional WE here.
Justinian is unlikely to attack us so we only have to worry about Togu and even if he
is second in the Soldiers demographics he is only 2/3 of our rating. Justi won't plot war against us as long as we're pleased or better with him. I do not think he can even be bribed to war against us at pleased but this may be incorrect.
I am inclined to take the first 5 turns to assemble the stack and move it towards the tile
1E , 2N of Neapolis in preparation to attach Nara first. we will have defensive bonus
from forest / jungle there were we don't against Kagoshima
Then make decision about when to attack. I would not wait this long. The stack is assembled and ready to go. I'd attack your first turn or second at latest.
Economy - should we stay at 0% research ? Can't really see that there is anything we
urgently need to research at the moment
Be aware that as soon as our stack moves out of our culture we will once again be in a negative gpt situation. So, Marblefur will need to build Wealth pretty much continuously.
At least we don't have to worry about mounted units from Toku, he will have cats however.
We can whip that stable in Rome your first turn and put overflow into archer. Archers can be used for garrison duties to free up axes (which can garrison our conquest cities from Toku). I'm kinda envisioning Coppertusk producing replacement cats with the occasional WE. Regarding the garrison units btw, since our happy cap is so high now we can safely leave empty cities that are not in danger (as long as keep our spawnbusters posted). There are a couple of axes in backline cities which I should have already advanced towards the front during my turnset. Sorry about this, but then again, I'm not a deity player .
I'm anticipating our builds in our major cities during war as something like this:
Coppertusk-whip that courthouse soon as possible. Heavy on cats, few WE's
Marblefur-Wealth
Capitol-not sure that stable I put in queue is best now. I'm thinking a HorseArcher might be good to make even w/o the stable (can get to front quick and give us some counter to Toku's cats in the field; no flanking damage incurred if his cats are in cities tho). This city may also have to produce Wealth too though.
Rome-whip stable into archer; frees the axe. This city will be an awesome production city and in fact would be an excellent candidate for HerEpic, someday
Antium and Arretium will also produce units, maybe two quick archers again to free the axes.
Goldenclam, Cumae and Washington-Wealth,units as needed.
Silkflood- a production poor city now/we might want to run 1-2 scientists there.
The spy can help us scout also since we have such limited knowledge of Toku's units. He's got to have a pretty decent stack somewhere. Hopefully he'll attack us in field somewhere outside Kagoshima.
And yes, the economy thing will be huge juggling act. Hopefully the city capture gold will come in right on time and keep us afloat.
And oh, btw, don't forget to build all those courthouses while you're managing all this . Kidding, have fun !
@ ShiVvV, I figured that you build the worker in Arretium due to unimproved tiles. My though was that had you grown it working 2 food tile and then work both the horse and borrow the stone tile from Rome, you would have a more productive city to build a worker or anything else until we build a few cottages. Since we do not have CS, cottages are ok for now.
@ Clive, I agree with what ShiVvV said. (EDIT: Except attacking Nara first, we should attack Kago first since it is the faster war route. To that I would like to add;
Whip the worker in NoFreshWater(?) and let the city grow while building units or wealth, (The reason is that it is always better to whip workers and settlers if it takes too many turn to complete them)
Build cats or wealth in the capital,(This is better than building a stable and this capital is a commerce capital, not a hammer capital)
Start a archer in Ravenna (Banna, 3 sugar(?) and copper city ) and then a lib (whip) and run 2 specialists.
Oh use any new workers to chop forest from around the Gem City and
Keep in mind if you have to use more than 2 (3 at a max) cats to hit cities before using WE, you are likely wasting cats. (Bombard first of course)
Clive, I made a mistake and did not see ShiVvV saying to attack Nara first, do not send the stack to Nara, that is the slow path. Your assessment to attack Kago is better/faster, so attack Kagoshima first, then Nara. If possible capture as many workers the first turn and use them to connect the war path with new roads.
Sorry about that mess up. Another reason to attack Kago first is that it has a fort and it is better to have all the Cats we have for bombarding.
Clive, I made a mistake and did not see ShiVvV saying to attack Nara first, do not send the stack to Nara, that is the slow path. Your assessment to attack Kago is better/faster, so attack Kagoshima first, then Nara. If possible capture as many workers the first turn and use them to connect the war path with new roads. Now I wish I had repositioned the army onto the plains hill just north of the Bud. missionary as I was about to do on my last turn. This would have let us attack either city in 3 turns.
Sorry about that mess up. Another reason to attack Kago first is that it has a fort and it is better to have all the Cats we have for bombarding.
You're right, Htadus and Clive. It is better to attack Kago first (better defended, the walls, etc.) If I'd learn to look at the damn map I might learn a thing or two . I could have done a couple of things better to set you up for this set, Clive. Sorry, learning too here.
BTW, Justi and Toku do have open borders so we might see an unexpected enemy unit pop up from Justi's lands.
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. Kidding, have fun !
. I could have done a couple of things better to set you up for this set, Clive. Sorry, learning too here.
