Iggy the Idiot - Prince /Monarch training

[Sir Clive]

Hi all - just got home. Relax with a glass of wine, watch the first half of the football
then start ....

I will probably start at about 21.00 London time, 1 hr from now.

Plan

Move as many troops as popssible towards Kagoshima
We go for that first , then Nara
Asemble on the border .
Capture workers where possible
Generally go with shiVvV suggestions for city builds

Marblefur - wealth
Rome whip stable then archers for garrison
Antium/arretium/ Ravenna, archers so we can send axes to the front
Capital - change stable to catapult ( switch to wealth if neccessary )

Juggle the economy and try not to go completely bust

I said I was bad at warring - here's a fundamental major problem I have
which I have never understood

Let's say I have a stack containing cats, axes , elephants and a couple of spears.

I normally bombard down to 0% defence ( or close to ) , then attach with the
axes and eles, provided I have at least 85% chance of winning.
Is that basically correct - never quite sure whether I should attack with cats
once they are can no longer bombard ?
Also lets say they have 3-4 archers in the city . Do I attack with one unit at a time
from the stack or just group together all of the eles / axes and right click on the city
to let them all attack in the one move ?

I'll stop after 5 turns unless something mad happens.

 

[Sir Clive]

Someone kindly told me how to do the ALT-X to place BFC on the dot map a few turns back.

I just realised that at the end of the first five I will probably want to post a screeny with lines / arrows to show proposed troop movements for the next 5 .

Can anyone tell me how to do this ? Is there a list somewhere that tells you what all of the ALT / CTRL things do ? I only know signs, and now BFC and I couldn't find anything on the forums

Cheers

Niall

 

[pigswill]

Don't know that technical stuff. On the other hand I usually take a couple of turns to capture a city (unless I have a lot of seige), bombard defences first turn then cats for collateral then mop up.

 

[ShiVvV]

Someone kindly told me how to do the ALT-X to place BFC on the dot map a few turns back.

I just realised that at the end of the first five I will probably want to post a screeny with lines / arrows to show proposed troop movements for the next 5 .

Can anyone tell me how to do this ? Is there a list somewhere that tells you what all of the ALT / CTRL things do ? I only know signs, and now BFC and I couldn't find anything on the forums. Probably the easiest way to do this is to open your screenshot in Windows paint to add lines, arrows, etc. "paint.net" is a free download and a more powerful program btw. I'm not an expert with either but have done some basic things like that to images in the past. The Sevopedia also contains a list of shortcuts near the bottom of the table of contents.

Cheers

Niall

You could also resort to 'alt + S' just to tag pathways, text, etc.

 

[ShiVvV]

snip

I said I was bad at warring - here's a fundamental major problem I have
which I have never understood

Let's say I have a stack containing cats, axes , elephants and a couple of spears.

I normally bombard down to 0% defence ( or close to ) , then attach with the
axes and eles, provided I have at least 85% chance of winning.
Is that basically correct - never quite sure whether I should attack with cats
once they are can no longer bombard ?
Also lets say they have 3-4 archers in the city . Do I attack with one unit at a time
from the stack or just group together all of the eles / axes and right click on the city
to let them all attack in the one move ?

I'll stop after 5 turns unless something mad happens.

I"m not a big fan of stack attack. I see the pros using it a lot on playthroughs to speed play time but I prefer to select single unit and right-click-hold on target to check combat odds. Then while still right-click-holding move cursor back to tile containing attacking unit and release. (Forgive if you already know this for checking combat odds, Clive).

A situation you describe could be handled like this:
1) Use accuracy promoted cats first to reduce cultural defense (-16% damage).
2) I don't necessarily take the city down to 0%. I will check the odds of attacking cats to survive (withdraw) when inflicting collateral damage once cultural defense reduced a good bit. Generally city-raider promoted cats have better chance of withdrawal when inflicting collateral.
3) Then use WE's starting with best combat odds generally. Occasionally, to prevent a very highly promoted unit from dieing I'll attack first with a unit with slightly lower attack odds first.

BTW, I posted this link before will again. An excellent source for information
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=478563&highlight=enemy

 

[Sir Clive]

Played 5 turns

Summary

Ready to attack Kagoshima next turn.
Afraid I didn't really micro manage the cities or the economy
all that well but I was concentrating on the warring and I am not
very clever at multi tasking

Any way due to the decision to attack Kago first attack was delayed as
we had to get our stack through the jungle / forest.

I guess we have enough now to go for Kagoshima next turn ?
Nara is now size 7 - I don't know how many troops are there.

Earliest I will be able to play next five turns will be tomorrow
evening but I might be able to post some screenies tomorrow morning .

Would appreciate some advice as to what to do with the promotions before
we attack

Save coming in a few minutes ....


Start at AD500

Hit Enter to end turn
Granary completes in Washington
Whip stable in CowFlood ( Capital )
Whip courthouse in Coppertusk
Whip Library in CopperClam
Stable is only 1 turn from completion so no whip neccessary

520 AD ( T136 )
Stack of 12 Eles, 12 cats, 1 Axe, 1 Spear stars moving towards Kagoshima
Confusion missionary spreads to Coppertusk
Workers generally head towrds Roman border
Build a couple more roads , clear grassland around Ravenna
Elephant destroys Barb hun city - it was size 1, we could have
waited for it to grow but it got us 41 Gold and it least it means we are safe from it
producing any more barbs
Send spy towards Japanese lands.
I hope this is not wrong - where we have just one defender in a city I have
fortified that defender. I want to make sure I don't leave anything undefended like
I did last time.
EOT
We are at 128 gold, -18 gpt

IT - Cowflood starts Archer as suggested, Silkflood starts Archer, GoldenClam starts Archer,
Realise NoFreshWater is unprotected but Barracks due in 1 so I will build Archer next.
Also realised that we have a lot of units which have plenty of promotions
to take , but I am unsure which are best and when we should take them.
I will wait untill we attack
Still reasearching Aesthetics at 0% - unsure what we decided about Science ?
EOT

540 Ad ( T137 )

Stack moves towards Kagoshima but there is a lot of Jungle in the way so it will take a few turns
Workers build various things , sending some towards Japan to clear Jungle / build roads
Now at 110 gold -2 gpt.
Still not sure what to do with workers all a bit random at the moment.
Just remembered said chop Forest around the gems which I forgt to do
I have renamed Neapolis 'Gems City'
A lot of them are on the way to clear Jungle round Kago / Gems City now
EOT

560 Ad ( T138 )

Now at 108 gold , +20 pt so I bump science up to 20% . Now -18 gpt, Aesthetics due in 9 .
Not sure we decidd what to research next . We are going for Great Lib right ?
So Aesth is probaably right ?
Can trade a spare Gems to Justinian for a fish which I do.
Still not sure about these workers but I will carry on .....
Carry on moving stuff towards Kagoshima.

Cowflood Archer->Axeman
GoldenFlood Archer->Axeman
Arretium Worker-> Archer

EOT

580 AD ( T137 )

Now at 108 gold , -20 gpt, 20% science

Togu has Spearman/Archer on one tile on his border 2S of Kagoshima
( right next to our SOD ) and Swordsman / Axeman / Worker 1W of that.
So I suppose I had better go bombard Kago I move one Elephant from the stack back
to defend Gems City just in case .
Gems now has 2 Eles, 2 Axes and a spear so should be OK

Somewhere ( missed where ) Horse Archer-> Axeman
Ravenna Worker->Worker
Antium Worker->Galley ( to explore Togu coast )

EOT

I seem to have screwed up the economy again - we are now at 63g, -32g 20% Science
Aesthetics due in 7 . Go back to 0% science. Now at 63g + 7gpt

600 AD ( T138 )


Kogu archer and spearman land on Bananas north of Gem City. Kill them easily with
Ele in Gems City.
Stack now on tile 1SE of Kagoshima.
Kag is 50% defence, 3 Archers, 1 Axe 1 Sword in city.

 

[Sir Clive]

Here's the save ....

 

[Sir Clive]

I"m not a big fan of stack attack. I see the pros using it a lot on playthroughs to speed play time but I prefer to select single unit and right-click-hold on target to check combat odds. Then while still right-click-holding move cursor back to tile containing attacking unit and release. (Forgive if you already know this for checking combat odds, Clive).


Thanks ShiVvV - very useful.

Yes I normally attack with 1 unit at a time ( unless I am attacking 3 warriors with a 10 tank stack ) , so I can make sure I don't end up using damaged units, I can get promotions quicker and I stand the best chance of winning. And I still don't understand fully which order the units will attack in ( and in which order the defenders will defend) if I send them all in together

I always use the right click for checking odds and very rarely attack unless odds are less than 85% unless I am desperate to save a turn capturing the city and can afford to sacrifice a couple of units.

 

[pigswill]

Why did you leave most of the cats behind?

 

[Sir Clive]

Why did you leave most of the cats behind?

In retrospect that wasn't too clever ( In fact it was b***dy stupid c**k up on my front)

I often have a problem when trying to group stuff.

I have never quite got the hang of the Shift click , Alt click, control click.

I screwed up here badly - I moved what I though was the whole stack and then 2 turns later I realised I had left a load of the cats behind.
Don't know how I missed that the next turn either

I then decided the stack was probably big enough to take Kagoshima anyway, rather than delay declaring on Togu for 2 turns so the other cats could catch up .

So I decided I would leave tha cats there , join up with a few axes etc and they could hopefully grab those workers and get the defences of Nara down whilst the Elephants made their way over from Kagoshima.

Completely unplanned - my carelessness and it will probabaly cost us 2-3 turns. BUt hopefully not disastrous......

 

[Htadus]

You still have a chance to move them this turn. So send them toward Nara now and move the axe protecting the Iron source. Since you will loose a few extra cats, we should build some in the front.

BTW, we should be getting another GG soon. Rome could use a military instructor and build 5exp units from the get go. We are going to need it when we go after Justi.

By the way, stack attack is a poor way to war. Staking similar units and attacking is Ok but need to have a plan. In this situation, when you attack Kaga, you can take a turn to use all cats to bombard and wait for net turn to capture, or you can bombard with all bit 2 cats (unpromoted is fine) and then follow up with the WE. The chances are that you will only loose 2 cats either way if you attack the second turn by using few more cats to bombard and then use 2 cats to attack the city.

However if you choose to Stack attack, the game will use all your cats before using WE since it uses all the seige, you can easily loose all the cats by the time you are at the 3rd Japanese City.

 

[ShiVvV]

Looked at the save, Clive. We're ok. Some thoughts:

1. About garrisoning backline cities. We have plenty of happiness, so, cities that are far from the front and not in any danger actually need no garrison at all. I've noticed that you've expressed concern about cities not having a unit in them in a few posts before, the thing is, if the city is not in danger then doesn't need a garrison--except for barb defense. Use warriors/archers to spawnbust to advance axes to front. With secure spawnbusting, we could actually get away with no units in any of the backline cities.

2. About barb defense. We urgently need to reposition some units, preferably warriors/archers back to their spawnbusting positions. Otherwise, barbs will pop back up and cause us headaches in backline areas. Pic below might help explain this. I have indicated positions for spawnbusters using 'unit here' signs on map. (4 locations). {These rules only work for spawnbusting land units, i.e., galley spawn is governed by a different game coding}. I strongly recommend repositioning our weaker units to the indicated or analogous tiles.

Spoiler :

3. Some backline cities have 2 units in them. Move them out to spawnbust. Get the horse archer to the front.

4. The galley is absolutely not needed. Build cat or something else.

5. Be careful with the workers near the front. Toku might get greedy and try to nab some. The workers near Gem city can chop units after finishing that cottage.

6. Combat workers can advance with stack to build roads where needed.

7. Promotions--Generally I try to hang onto these until after combat to speed healing. Sometimes though it is necessary to promote before combat.

8. You did not wreck the economy. It tanked simply because our units moved out of culture. Financial advisor will show you this.

Edit: The spawning of barbs may not be such an issue for us at this point in game, it may actually be of benefit in that rather than raiding us they may actually just generate cities and sit in them as they tend to do as game progresses. Just be aware that as map is now they can appear.
You can left-click on a tile and hit alt-S to remove any pre-existing signs btw...if all that crap i put on map is annoying you

 

[Sir Clive]

Thanks for the advice chaps !

Given that I have an enourmous garden which looks like a jungle and the sun is shining for the first time this year I have roped my mother in to coming down and helping me out with some gardening so I won't be playing until tonight.

I'll try to post a plan by about 19.00 .

ShiVvV - can you you tell me how you drew those lines / squares in your spoiler in point 2 ?

I think part of the reason I had a few problems is

a) I have been plasying in windows mode so that I can write notes to Notepad++ which I am not used to
b) Buffy / Bug is new to me. Whilst it is incredibly useful , all of the icons are looking sloghtly different. I sometimes find it difficult to see which units are selected and which are not.
c) I think I have the shortcuts wrong for grouping units . I will start using the icons rather than the shortcuts
to be in the safe side

More later ....

 

[pigswill]

Move cats and ironaxe this turn (there's a spare garrison axe nearby as well), next turn start bombarding defences, wait for rest of cats to arrive then attack. There's a chance that Toku will reinforce the city which is good because it means we can take him down quicker with massive collateral.

 

[ShiVvV]

Thanks for the advice chaps !

Given that I have an enourmous garden which looks like a jungle and the sun is shining for the first time this year I have roped my mother in to coming down and helping me out with some gardening so I won't be playing until tonight.

I'll try to post a plan by about 19.00 .

ShiVvV - can you you tell me how you drew those lines / squares in your spoiler in point 2 ? I used MS Paint. List of tools, shapes, colors on top taskbar. It took about 20-30 mins of just clicking around to figure things out.

I think part of the reason I had a few problems is

a) I have been plasying in windows mode so that I can write notes to Notepad++ which I am not used to
b) Buffy / Bug is new to me. Whilst it is incredibly useful , all of the icons are looking sloghtly different. I sometimes find it difficult to see which units are selected and which are not.
c) I think I have the shortcuts wrong for grouping units . I will start using the icons rather than the shortcuts Yep, the icons work too. 'Alt + click' groups all units of any type on a given tile; 'Ctrl + click' groups all units of only the type selected on a given tile
to be in the safe side

More later ....

Take your time, Clive. This game is about learning how to do things better, which is what we're doing. That being said, if you break another laptop then...well....!

 

[Sir Clive]

Ended up busier than expected yesterday so I didn't get a chance to play.

Have a fairly clear day today so will play / post the remaining 5 later.

 

[Htadus]

Clive, we do need a galley to explore that island to NE and that city is the only city that can build a galley. So please let us keep that build.

Do you really want to build a worker in Ravenna?

Coppertusk has a Stable and a Rax, should it not build WE?

I recommend that we let Washington grow after the current worker.

BTW, there is a imprisoned worker in the Gem City, that we can send to build a road to Japan.

ShiVvV, I am curious as to why you have two of the future city sites just 1 tile away from the coast? There are better sites either inland or coastal near by the suggested sites.

 

[Sir Clive]

I'll play in the next 90-120 mins. ( (15.30 - 16.00 ) London time. Should be able to post an
update tonight.

2 people have given opinion on Galley - ShiVvV No, Htadus Yes . As I decided to build it in the first place then I guess that is a 1.5->1 in favour ( I only count myself as 0.5 vote as I am still a novice at this level ) . So I will keep with the galley.

Agree with Htadus that CopperTusk should build Elephants

So plan is reunite stray Cats with the stack then attack.

Still not sure about Science but intend to leave at 0% as I guess we will continue to be low on cash once we have captured some Toku cities ...

@ShiVvV - I used to use MSPaint 6-7 years ago when posting to Civ so I am familiar with it .
Just that since there are much more sophisticated tools available at work I haven't used it for ages.
It seems to wwork on this PC so I will try it out - Thanks

@Htadus - I will have a look at the woorker in Ravenna and the improsined worker in Gem City

 

[pigswill]

Seems like you have enough advice already. Built a boat. Kill everyone . Enjoy .

 

[Sir Clive]

Seems like you have enough advice already. Built a boat. Kill everyone . Enjoy .

I am a bit of a coward - I normally play peaceful. But now is time for some
I hope ....