I'm behind in tech as China. Help please!

[Steb]

Yeah, the UPs that affect the research rate feel pretty pointless once you know about tech modifiers. The Maya are also in this situation. By contrast, the Babylonian and Japanese UPs are nice because they really feel like they give you something special and extra.

To change the Chinese UP while keeping it similar, it could simply grant something when being the first to discover a tech. (GP points of the type most relevant to the tech?)

For the Maya, I don't know, it could be something like Great People can use the "discover tech" ability twice?

 

[need my speed]

I very much agree with this.

 

[freethink]

I think the modifiers should be changed for better gameplay.

 

[Hussarknight]

The Chinese UP is contradictory. China has a bad research modifier, recieves a unique deficiency which is extra research penalty per era, and the UP is merely to alleviate that? I remember the extra research penalty was introduced when people thought AI China was beelining too often, too fast. But doesn't the UP actually encourage beelining? Anyway with the new tech tree beelining hardly happens anymore and the UP only makes sense for the UHV goal.

I think a UP based on tributary states, like +1 commerce for each vassal city and an extra +1 for each vassal would be more interesting for China.


Different civs have different city number/distance maintenance and research modifiers, which makes strategies for civilizations different. For China, don't play like Russia or Spain and spam cities. You'll go bankrupt keeping only half the number of cities within a small radius.

#                           EGY CHI BAB HAR GRE IND CAR PLY PER ROM TAM ETH KOR MAY BYZ JAP VIK ARA TIB KHM INO MOO SPA FRA ENG HRE RUS MAL POL POR INC ITA MON AZT MUG TUR THA CON IRA NET GER AME ARG MEX COL BRA CAN     IND IND NAT CEL SEL BAR
tCulture =                (  90, 80, 80, 80,100, 80,100,100,100,100,110, 90, 50,100,100,110,130,110,120,120,120,125,125,160,130,150,130,130,110,147,140,150,135,140,125,150,130,130,135,165,150,140,130,140,140,140,140,     20, 20, 20, 50, 50, 30 )
tUnitUpkeep =             ( 135,120,120,200,110,135,115,100,100,110,100,115,100,110,110,105, 90,120,110, 90,100,110,110,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100,100, 75, 90,110,120, 90, 90, 90, 90, 75, 80, 80, 90, 90, 80, 75,      0,  0,100,100, 50,100 )
tResearchCost =           ( 130,125,120,125,130,120,110,200,130,125,125,120,105,115,140,125, 85,110, 90, 90,100, 90, 80, 80, 80, 85, 80,110, 80, 75, 80, 75, 90, 85,120,110,100, 85, 90, 80, 75, 75, 70, 90, 90, 90, 70,    110,110,110,350,110,110 )
tDistanceMaintenance =    ( 100,100,110,120, 90,100, 60, 50, 90, 70, 95,100,120,100, 80, 95, 70, 90,120, 80, 80, 80, 55, 55, 50, 70, 50, 80, 90, 55, 60, 70, 75, 70,100,110, 80, 80, 90, 45, 60, 60, 50, 70, 70, 80, 70,     20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20 )
tCitiesMaintenance =      ( 135,120,135,125,125,140,120,100, 90, 60,100,115,130,115, 80,110, 75,110,120,100,100, 70, 50, 70, 70, 75, 70, 90, 75, 80, 80, 80, 75, 85,100,120,100, 90, 90, 70, 70, 70, 50, 85, 85, 80, 60,     30, 30, 30, 30, 30, 30 )
tCivicUpkeep =            ( 110,120,100,100, 80,120, 70, 80, 70, 75, 80, 80, 80, 80, 90, 80, 80, 90, 80,100,100, 90, 75, 80, 60, 70, 80, 80, 70, 75, 60, 60, 60, 60, 90, 90, 80, 80, 70, 60, 60, 50, 50, 70, 70, 75, 75,     70, 70, 70, 70, 70, 70 )
tHealth =                 (   2,  1,  1,  1,  3,  1,  3,  3,  3,  3,  2,  3,  3,  3,  3,  2,  3,  2,  3,  3,  3,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  2,  3,  2,  3,  3,  4,  4,  4,  4,  3,  3,  3,  3,  3,  3,  3,  3,  3,      0,  0,  0,  0,  0,  0 )
tUnitCost =               ( 110,130,140,200,110,120, 90,100, 90,100, 85, 90, 80,105,115, 90, 85,100,110, 90,105,100, 90, 90,100, 90, 90, 90, 80, 90,100,110, 80,100,100, 90, 90, 70, 90, 90, 75, 85, 80, 85, 85, 85, 85,    200,200,150,150,100,140 )
tWonderCost =             (  80, 80, 80, 80, 80,100, 90,100, 85,100,100,100,100, 90,110,100, 90, 90,100, 90, 80, 85, 90, 70, 90,100,100, 90,100, 90, 80, 80, 90, 80, 80, 90, 90,100, 85,100, 90, 70, 70, 90, 90, 90, 80,    150,150,150,100,100,100 )
tBuildingCost =           ( 110,120,110,100,100,110, 90, 50,110, 90, 70,100, 80, 90,110,100, 90,100, 80,100, 90, 90, 90, 85, 90, 85,100, 80, 80, 80, 70, 80, 80, 80, 85, 80, 80, 80, 80, 80, 70, 70, 70, 80, 80, 75, 80,    100,100,150,100,100,100 )
tInflationRate =          ( 130,120,130,130,130,140,130,130,130,130,110,130, 90,125,120, 80, 70, 85,100,100, 90, 85, 90, 75, 70, 70, 75,115, 70, 80, 80, 85, 90, 80, 80, 80, 75, 75, 75, 75, 70, 65, 60, 65, 65, 60, 60,     95, 95, 95, 95, 95, 95 )
tGreatPeopleThreshold =   ( 140,140,140,140,110,125,120,120,110,110,110,110,110,100,120,110, 90, 80, 85, 90, 90, 75, 75, 70, 75, 80, 80, 80, 80, 75, 70, 65, 70, 70, 75, 80, 80, 85, 80, 70, 65, 65, 70, 80, 80, 80, 75,    100,100,100,100,100,100 )
tGrowthThreshold =        ( 150,130,150,150,130,150,120,120,130,120,110,100,112,110, 80,110, 80, 80, 80, 80, 80, 80, 80, 80, 70, 80, 80, 75, 80, 80, 70, 70, 75, 70, 70, 70, 75, 75, 70, 75, 70, 70, 70, 70, 70, 70, 70,    125,125,125,125,125,125 )

I really don't like the inflation rates. What's the point of having higher inflation for old civs who can potentially have a longer game? It's like taxing the poor and exempting the rich.

If the rates would be made more equal would that mean that India an China would totally wreck the game since their lands are big and rich?

 

[Leoreth]

See inflation as a tax on civs where players have a long time to develop and amass compounding benefits. It is a tax on the rich.

 

[Logoncal]

I just played a Marathon game as China and pretty much gave up after 1400 AD. I had China, Korea, Mongolia, Tibet and Transoxania and had the biggest army. My science rate was at 10% commerce and i was gaining like 6 gold per turn. My maintenance? 700 Gold.

Also, China's UP is a joke. It never kicks in, only on Heir difficulty where you already get lower tech costs. I recommend changing the UP because currently, it's by far the worst UP in the entire game.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

What's China's UP again? Reduced cost of techs nobody else has discovered yet?

Hm, perhaps it could be changed to reduced cost of techs nobody you know has discovered yet. This would give a nice incentive for isolationist gameplay.

 

[Logoncal]

What's China's UP again? Reduced cost of techs nobody else has discovered yet?

Hm, perhaps it could be changed to reduced cost of techs nobody you know has discovered yet. This would give a nice incentive for isolationist gameplay.

Doesnt matter. India is always ahead of you.

 

[Hussarknight]

Doesnt matter. India is always ahead of you.

Agreed, India is richer and has better lands

 

[Logoncal]

Agreed, India is richer and has better lands

And India doesn't have 3 billion handicaps and isnt prone to big boi inflation rates.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I mean, you can easily lose contact with India as long as you don't expand into Tibet too early.