[BTS] "I'm only planning on bugfixes from here on" - f1rpo. The resulting mod-mods discussion.

[arcvoodal]

Since advanced civ is being kept pure, our ideas for changes/additions are going to be made as mod-mods for AdvCiv. I figured we should take advantage of the module-system in civ4 modding so that we can "take home" the changes/additions we want and build them into our own mod-mods. Consider this scenario with John, Jack, and Jill who are unaware of each other:


John wants to expand on AdvCiv diplomacy; revert AdvCiv changes to civics; and keep AdvCiv changes to espionage as it is.

Jack wants to overhaul AdvCiv espionage; expand AdvCiv diplomacy; and leave AdvCiv changes to civics as it is.

Jill wants to overhaul AdvCiv espionage; revert AdvCiv changes to civics; and leave AdvCiv diplomacy as it is.

John, Jack, and Jill each build their own mod-mod from scratch and each publish them on CivFanatics. Each mod-mod is incompatible, uncustomizable, and in a monolithic take-it-or-leave-it package.


Rather than each of us duplicating work like this and every mod-mod being full of interconnected immutable changes/additions, why don't we release our minor changes/additions as modules first and share them with eachother? We can "take home" the modules we want and combine them to make our own mod-mods, while also making it possible for others to remove the parts they didn't want and add new parts as they see fit.
I can make a module for rebalancing units, and another module for rebalancing buildings. Now everyone has access to separate balance changes and can choose if they want one or both, then simply pop it into their own big mod-mod they are working on.

 

[DeepWell]

Well, isn't that timely? I'm just about to release a modmod (built on my previous modmods) which has revisited cultural unit and citystyles. In addition I have added unique units / buildings 1-3 per civ (some of them are shared). The changes I have made to those are not dramatic because I didn't want them to affect the AI in any way but I believe that it gives a bit more culture specific feel to the game. If that sounds something you could work on then I'm available for collaboration.

 

[arcvoodal]

Well, isn't that timely? I'm just about to release a modmod (built on my previous modmods) which has revisited cultural unit and citystyles. In addition I have added unique units / buildings 1-3 per civ (some of them are shared). The changes I have made to those are not dramatic because I didn't want them to affect the AI in any way but I believe that it gives a bit more culture specific feel to the game. If that sounds something you could work on then I'm available for collaboration.

If you want to check balance for units there is this (long) video. Unit Tier List . Buildings need tons of balancing. Castles become obsolete super quick, custom house costs tons of etc. Now that AdvCiv has made some balance changes too, I would like to hear from some experts what balancing would synergies with AdvCiv.

For new civs its possible to make a module for each new civ, rather than cram them all in together as a single module. This guide shows how to do it for new civs.

P.S
Thanks a ton for the ethnic unit art style addition to AdvCiv!!!

 

[arcvoodal]

For DeepWell's ethnic units and buildings mod-mod, which was created with the help of many other members on civfanatics, I have modularized some of the units and civilizations aspect by stripping out each item to its own directory. I created the module with the folder structure I think adheres to modularity. I cannot currently achieve the same with buildings and city tile sets since the Civ4CityLSystem.xml and Civ4PlotLSystem.xml has far too much to strip in a reasonable amount of time, it is exactly the kind of behemoth files I would like us all to avoid creating (especially since it even replaces the original xml files in advciv's xml folder).

I attached the module to this comment, but this isn't functional yet since I cannot find a more efficient way to completing the rest. Some of the unit files for generics might not be named perfectly. I would like for some help stripping and modularizing the rest of the files into the current folder structure so that this can be converted to a modular mod-mod. I also include the script I wrote for extracting the unit xml into their own separate files. Writing a similar script for city tiles and buildings would probably take longer than doing it all by hand.
An example of the benefits doing it this way is easily creating new city tile sets which only apply to a specific civ which previously was assigned to a general ethnic art group (and reverse the change effortlessly), and of course do so without changing multiple xml files shared across the entire mod (including the entire advciv mod itself).

With each civ in its own folder a modder which wants to add additional unique units etc to certain civs could put it in this folder.

 

[arcvoodal]

Attached are three modules for the AdvCiv v1.1 mod

- no resource requirements for unique units,
- unit rebalances,
- building rebalances

---------------

# NO RESOURCE REQUIREMENTS FOR UNIQUE UNITS Module

Unique units no longer require resources.

## Holkan
now costs 30H (was 35h).
(to make up for the fact that not requiring a resource is no longer a special buff particular to this unit).

## Jaguar
now costs 35H (was 40H).
(to make up for the fact that not requiring a resource is no longer a special buff particular to this unit).

## Panzer
Note: Not requiring oil means the player can now go straight for Industrialism and build the Panzer without getting Combustion first. Given that this unique unit comes late and is hardly any better than the generic tank, I believe this is acceptable, rather than making Combustion a hard requirement for the Panzer. It you want Panzer to require Combustion change the file Panzer_Civ4UnitInfos.xml on line 93 to <PrereqTech>TECH_COMBUSTION</PrereqTech>

---------------

# UNIT REBALANCE Module

Spearman, Pikeman, and all their unique versions now have +125% to mounted (was +100%).

I was thinking perhaps this same rebalance can be done by making it so that mounted units shouldn't be able to get the shock promotion but decided against making such a change for now.

Note: This module also removes the resource requirement for the affected unique units (impi etc).

-----------------

# BUILDING REBALANCE Module

## Versailles
Now costs 500H (was 800H).
(Crazy expensive for something that doesn't do much more than forbidden palace and is unlocked at an awkward technology).

## Space elevator
Now unlocks at Composites (was Robotics).
(Originally unlocked at a tech not relevant to the space race, meaning the player would have to take a detour away from space-race techs to unlock a wonder meant to help the space race, which doesn't make any sense and would actually hurt attempts to win a science victory).

## Aqueduct/Baray/Hammam
Aqueduct and Baray now 70H (was 90H).
Hamman now 90H (was 100H).
(90H still seemed a bit too expensive for an Aqueduct/Baray).

## Shelters/bunkers
Double production for protective trait.

## Hospital
now costs 120H (was 200H).
(Unit heal in such an expensive building is worthless since cities at the front lines most probably wouldn't build such an expensive building. Also was too expensive for the health)

## Public Transport
now costs 110H (was 150H).
(Was simply too expensive).

## Forum
buff to give +35% great people
(default +25% means it is better to run two specialists than to build this building).

## Assembly Plant
now 190H (was 250h).
(Instead of "50% faster with coal", simply make it cost less hammers. There may be some rounding error with the organized trait discount but I believe it is about 2H only).

## Sacrificial Alter
now 120H (was 90h).
(Now same cost as regular courthouse. Sacrificial Alter is already extremely strong; It buffs an already powerful mechanic and it applies to drafting too! Having it be cheaper than regular courthouse on-top of everything else is just too ridiculous).

## Castle and Citadel
Obsolete at Artillery (instead of economics).
Economics comes so soon after unlocking castles. Economics isn't something that can simply be reasonably delayed for the sake of keeping castles/citadels in-action.

## Nuclear power plant
No meltdown chance.

## Intelligence agency
Double with protective trait.

---------------

Please debate and argue the balance changes! Let's get this game absolutely perfect.

These are three modules, and each module also has the changes modulerized so you can easily delete changes you don't want. For example, if you want Nuclear Power Plants to still have the meltdown chance, simply go into the folder `Building Rebalance` and delete the `Nuclear` folder.

---------------

To install this into AdvCiv go to the Assets folder in the AdvCiv file in your civ4 install `Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods\AdvCiv\Assets` and create a folder called `Modules`. Extract this mod to the Modules folder. in the AdvCiv folder open `AdvCiv.ini` and change line 5 to ModularLoading = 1

 

[arcvoodal]

# ADDITIONAL VANILLA MUSIC Module

adds already existing civ4 music to the list of song to play.

## Classical Era
AS2D_SONG_CHINESE_UNI
AS2D_SONG_GENGHIS_KHAN

-------------------

I would like to add more of the existing tracks but unfortunately the module system doesn't appear to work with the audio defines stuff. For example, there is an mp3 called "CivIIIModMidEast" in the Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Warlords\Assets\Sounds\Soundtrack folder, but trying to make a module which adds this track doesn't work. There is no AS2D_CivIIIModMidEast in the audio defines, and creating an VanillaMusic_AudioDefines.xml with the schemas etc doesn't work. I have only been able to get additional music not already included in audiodefines by directly changing the files. Does anyone know how new music can be added as a module?

---------------------

To install this into AdvCiv go to the Assets folder in the AdvCiv file in your civ4 install Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods\AdvCiv\Assets and create a folder called `Modules`. Extract this mod to the Modules folder. in the AdvCiv folder open `AdvCiv.ini` and change line 5 to ModularLoading = 1

 

[black_rider]

Hi, great changes overall, just one little bug I find, Jaguar Warrior still has strenght of 5 instead of 6 like you wrote in your post.

Edit: But maybe that is intentional, because now I see that Jaguar cost 35 hammers instead of 40 like a regular Swordsman ?

 

[arcvoodal]

Hi, great changes overall, just one little bug I find, Jaguar Warrior still has strenght of 5 instead of 6 like you wrote in your post.

Edit: But maybe that is intentional, because now I see that Jaguar cost 35 hammers instead of 40 like a regular Swordsman ?

Whoops sorry! Yeah I was thinking of trying to rebalance the jaguar by making it cost a little less (and maybe have woodsman 2 at some point). I forgot I made that hammer change. I'll edit the description to match the reduced cost, and update the actual file to change the jaguar to have strength 6 at a later date (because a 5H reduction on its own doesn't rebalance it enough in my opinion).

 

[arcvoodal]

# VOTE FOR ANY CIVIC Module v1.0
for AdvCiv v1.1

Allows voting for any civic as a global civic during United Nations voting.

--------------------------------------------------

To install this into AdvCiv go to the Assets folder in the AdvCiv file in your civ4 install `

Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods\AdvCiv\Assets

` and create a folder called `Modules`. Extract this mod to the Modules folder. in the AdvCiv folder open `AdvCiv.ini` and change line 5 to `

ModularLoading = 1

`

 

[DeepWell]

Please debate and argue the balance changes! Let's get this game absolutely perfect.

Sounds awesome! I'll see what I can do to help. I guess my first task is to implement modular culture art (units and cities).

Your balances seem very good so far!

I'm only thinking about the Forum rationale:

## Forum
buff to give +35% great people
(default +25% means it is better to run two specialists than to build this building).

Wouldn't it be worth to build it anyway because you can still run the specialists on top of it?

 

[arcvoodal]

I was thinking the opportunity cost never pays itself back. But it is probably too small a thing for it to matter I guess.

So I originally made this thread just to talk about using modules, but then the latest modules I've been posting aren't purely building blocks anymore (like the first one was). So I'm actually not going to be posting here anymore. I'll make a new post over at the Mod Components section once AdvCiv has an update (so that the civilopedia editing can be included in these modules).