I'm Patheic at Final Frontier
- Thread starter Starch
- Start date
Stylesrj
Tabitha SEAL
Work on other planets? Burn all Space Pirates?
Premier Valle
FF: Babylon 5 Mod Team
That happened to me in my first FF game, I had to keep reasearch at 60% and around 5 Systems producing money to stay afloat...
Some advice:
- Try to get as many resources as possible.
- Build on every planet in the systems, not just one <<<<<<<<<<<<---------
- I always try to get : Survivalism, Power, Religion.
There is a very good walktrough somewhere... I do not remember where, but I think that there is a link on Jon Shafer's signature.
Some advice:
- Try to get as many resources as possible.
- Build on every planet in the systems, not just one <<<<<<<<<<<<---------
- I always try to get : Survivalism, Power, Religion.
There is a very good walktrough somewhere... I do not remember where, but I think that there is a link on Jon Shafer's signature.
Stylesrj
Tabitha SEAL
I just won my FF game on Settler in 58 minutes. Won by Astral Ascension
I built like 5 colonies and I built as much as I could in each of them and didn't worry about the turns...
I got a Shaka Zulu as a rank at the end. My science rate? 90%
I built like 5 colonies and I built as much as I could in each of them and didn't worry about the turns...
I got a Shaka Zulu as a rank at the end. My science rate? 90%
renegadechicken
Warlord
Hey Starch. Ignore the people who are laughing at you and the guy who boasts of winning in 58 minutes; instead of helping you, all they've done is be rude. I can give you a few pointers (FF is my favorite mod in BtS! I play it more than the regular game!), but if you could clarify some of the things you might need help with, I could give you some more detailed advice.
First off, as someone else already mentioned, it's very important to build on more than one planet in each system; cities in FF no longer have a "true" fat cross (the 21 squares inhabitants could work), but instead they are solar systems with planets on which you can build different buildings. For example, in your capital, you can build a Factory on one planet, then a factory on your second planet, and so on (this is done by clicking on the different planets on the right side of the cityscreen, then checking the "Build new improvements on this planet" or whatever button).
Another huge change in FF from the Epic Game is that resources will NEVER (or at least, almost never!) be inside a cities' influence/culture border, and even if it was, you couldn't "work" the square anyway (as mentioned above). Instead, you need a worker (a Construction Ship) to build roads (warp lanes) out to the asteroid field where the resource is (such as Hydrogen or Gold), and build a Starbase (which will consume the worker). Starbases are "units" that will extend your influence across the resource(s) in the asteroid field in a reasonable amount of time (instead of waiting for your cities' influence to get all the way out there!) so you can then have another Construction Ship (the first is consumed in constructing the Starbase) build an Extraction Facility on the resource. Resources are very important, because your cities will very quickly become angry and polluted if you don't get the powerful (+3 happiness/health) happiness and health resources. There are others as well, such as Iron that will allow you to build certain units faster which can be handy, but the happ/health resources should be a priority.
Founding Values (religions) is also a very important aspect to FF, because each Value allows every city where it is present to build a Special Building, like a School of Zealots (Power Value), or a Survival Dome (Survival Value). These Special Buildings are very powerful and important because of their potency, and can mean the difference between winning and losing, happy or rioting cities, a tech lead or being "backward", etc.
Finally, something that helped me out a lot when I was struggling economically (to put it lightly-- my economy had pretty much crashed!): build MagLev Networks on several of your more populous planets (i.e., your planets that can support 2 or 3) and planets that are producing a fair bit of gold already (I believe gas giants produce 6 commerce to begin with!), and then when you can, Commercial Satellites make a HUGE difference (+2 commerce!) and should be applied liberally as well. And if you play like me, never waste time (or more specifically, money!) on Espionage; in FF, in my opinion, it's almost worthless because there are no spies, only the passive espionage missions, and in my experience the AI will almost invariably out-espionage you. *I prepare myself for the arguments over Espionage to commence*
And of course-- don't give up!!! I lost my first few FF games HORRIBLY, but after a while I got the hang of it, and it's now, as I said, my favorite mod! So keep trying, and bring your questions here and I'll do what I can to help.
First off, as someone else already mentioned, it's very important to build on more than one planet in each system; cities in FF no longer have a "true" fat cross (the 21 squares inhabitants could work), but instead they are solar systems with planets on which you can build different buildings. For example, in your capital, you can build a Factory on one planet, then a factory on your second planet, and so on (this is done by clicking on the different planets on the right side of the cityscreen, then checking the "Build new improvements on this planet" or whatever button).
Another huge change in FF from the Epic Game is that resources will NEVER (or at least, almost never!) be inside a cities' influence/culture border, and even if it was, you couldn't "work" the square anyway (as mentioned above). Instead, you need a worker (a Construction Ship) to build roads (warp lanes) out to the asteroid field where the resource is (such as Hydrogen or Gold), and build a Starbase (which will consume the worker). Starbases are "units" that will extend your influence across the resource(s) in the asteroid field in a reasonable amount of time (instead of waiting for your cities' influence to get all the way out there!) so you can then have another Construction Ship (the first is consumed in constructing the Starbase) build an Extraction Facility on the resource. Resources are very important, because your cities will very quickly become angry and polluted if you don't get the powerful (+3 happiness/health) happiness and health resources. There are others as well, such as Iron that will allow you to build certain units faster which can be handy, but the happ/health resources should be a priority.
Founding Values (religions) is also a very important aspect to FF, because each Value allows every city where it is present to build a Special Building, like a School of Zealots (Power Value), or a Survival Dome (Survival Value). These Special Buildings are very powerful and important because of their potency, and can mean the difference between winning and losing, happy or rioting cities, a tech lead or being "backward", etc.
Finally, something that helped me out a lot when I was struggling economically (to put it lightly-- my economy had pretty much crashed!): build MagLev Networks on several of your more populous planets (i.e., your planets that can support 2 or 3) and planets that are producing a fair bit of gold already (I believe gas giants produce 6 commerce to begin with!), and then when you can, Commercial Satellites make a HUGE difference (+2 commerce!) and should be applied liberally as well. And if you play like me, never waste time (or more specifically, money!) on Espionage; in FF, in my opinion, it's almost worthless because there are no spies, only the passive espionage missions, and in my experience the AI will almost invariably out-espionage you. *I prepare myself for the arguments over Espionage to commence*
And of course-- don't give up!!! I lost my first few FF games HORRIBLY, but after a while I got the hang of it, and it's now, as I said, my favorite mod! So keep trying, and bring your questions here and I'll do what I can to help.
Premier Valle
FF: Babylon 5 Mod Team
^^ I do use espionage points only to get the power graph online, after that, I never use it again.
I had played without it and won, but you never know.
I had played without it and won, but you never know.
renegadechicken
Warlord
Yeah, espionage can be useful in FF, but as the upgrades are so cripplingly expensive, I try not to spend any money I don't have to! I mean, I'd LOVE to know what the AI is building in all it's cities (and where they are!), but in most games, it just seems like such a waste when I'd rather take those cities with my upgraded units (then I can see them just fine! ) or I just don't care because I'm building the Astral Gates before they've got the tech.
Sometimes it's fun if you've got a nice tech lead to crank up the espionage slider and spy on everyone, but you'd have to be playing a lower level or be doing incredibly well to have the luxury of doing that!
I mean, I'd LOVE to know what the AI is building in all it's cities (and where they are!), but in most games, it just seems like such a waste when I'd rather take those cities with my upgraded units (then I can see them just fine! ) or I just don't care because I'm building the Astral Gates before they've got the tech. Sometimes it's fun if you've got a nice tech lead to crank up the espionage slider and spy on everyone, but you'd have to be playing a lower level or be doing incredibly well to have the luxury of doing that!
Premier Valle
FF: Babylon 5 Mod Team
... well, you know, sometimes the warmonger in me comes out and asks, who is the best prospect for a war?...
Stylesrj
Tabitha SEAL
I never used the EP thing. Waste of money and time. Nothing produces EP except for the slider, but you can build stuff to increase the EP production already there
For espionage, it doesn't pay well unless you build intel centers on every major world. Once you do that, a few turns running even 10% will push you above the AI, and not long after that you'll have at least research known. The intel centers make the investment in EP worth much more, and you don't generally need to know what's going on before that.
The powergraph is always useful, as it is otherwise hard to guess where everyone stands.
Knowing who is researching what is a big help in controlling the ascendancy race. If someone is getting close to it, the only sure defense is taking them out. Once they've got the tech, it is very hard to stop the project from completion.
The AIs are pretty good at research, and so will tend to blow away a passive human player. The Red Syndicate is generally a top competitor, though the patch (and post-patch fix) tone them down some.
The powergraph is always useful, as it is otherwise hard to guess where everyone stands.
Knowing who is researching what is a big help in controlling the ascendancy race. If someone is getting close to it, the only sure defense is taking them out. Once they've got the tech, it is very hard to stop the project from completion.
The AIs are pretty good at research, and so will tend to blow away a passive human player. The Red Syndicate is generally a top competitor, though the patch (and post-patch fix) tone them down some.
War is a tricky thing. It would make sense that the civs with military bonuses would be especially good at it, but that isn't exactly true. Having extra promotions is fun, and can make the early warfare more effective. But in the long term, it is economic and industrial might which drives the engine of war.
First off, the original Red Syndicate rocks. Play as them, and the game is at least one, probably two difficulty levels easier. My second pick is Paradise, happy expanders that they are. Lu's Avower techies aren't bad either, as leading in science gives you an edge.
It is all about expansion, and managing it. The extra trade routes of the Syndicate pay for the cost of new colonies, and that is hard to beat. More colonies means more productivity.
Next, anyone who can get the Power value is in a good position for war. It isn't hard to get 10XP per system, and you can build units with 20XP if you work at it.
Collecting Values is pretty good for war as well. No matter what you start with, gathering more and spreading them around will improve your economy and power. Natural transfer is nice and free, but conquest is often the only way to get some values.
A general war principle in FF is whoever gets Battleships first (and then delta battleships) can roll over their neighbors without them. Nothing in the early game easily stops battleships -- don't forget destroyers to escort them of course. Carriers are important too, but they are along the path, and won't by themselves win systems.
Without battleship tech superiority, you need numbers, and that comes down to production. Planetary defense ships are pretty easy to build and the tech for them is easy for the AI to advance, so it is hard to get a tech advantage over them. The target is likely to have delta defense before you have the comparable invasion ships.
Numbers, though, still win. It doesn't matter if you lose a lot of ships, as long as you take territory. Invasion ships are like catapults in Warlords. You'll lose them, but do damage so the other units can win. Don't expect the invasion ships to survive the attack, and don't worry about making attacks with them at pathetic odds. Especially if you take the collateral damage promotion, but even without it, they are your throwaway attrition units who charge the entrenched defenders and do some damage before they die.
First off, the original Red Syndicate rocks. Play as them, and the game is at least one, probably two difficulty levels easier. My second pick is Paradise, happy expanders that they are. Lu's Avower techies aren't bad either, as leading in science gives you an edge.
It is all about expansion, and managing it. The extra trade routes of the Syndicate pay for the cost of new colonies, and that is hard to beat. More colonies means more productivity.
Next, anyone who can get the Power value is in a good position for war. It isn't hard to get 10XP per system, and you can build units with 20XP if you work at it.
Collecting Values is pretty good for war as well. No matter what you start with, gathering more and spreading them around will improve your economy and power. Natural transfer is nice and free, but conquest is often the only way to get some values.
A general war principle in FF is whoever gets Battleships first (and then delta battleships) can roll over their neighbors without them. Nothing in the early game easily stops battleships -- don't forget destroyers to escort them of course. Carriers are important too, but they are along the path, and won't by themselves win systems.
Without battleship tech superiority, you need numbers, and that comes down to production. Planetary defense ships are pretty easy to build and the tech for them is easy for the AI to advance, so it is hard to get a tech advantage over them. The target is likely to have delta defense before you have the comparable invasion ships.
Numbers, though, still win. It doesn't matter if you lose a lot of ships, as long as you take territory. Invasion ships are like catapults in Warlords. You'll lose them, but do damage so the other units can win. Don't expect the invasion ships to survive the attack, and don't worry about making attacks with them at pathetic odds. Especially if you take the collateral damage promotion, but even without it, they are your throwaway attrition units who charge the entrenched defenders and do some damage before they die.
renegadechicken
Warlord
I have actually never considered that, but it sure makes sense; the Intelligence Centers give a whopping +100% boost to Espionage points! I'll have to try that in my next game; it will probably make a big difference, and maybe change how I play the mid to late game! It's crazy how I've played so many FF games without thinking of that!
Thanks, Inky! Mafutnyoas
Chieftain
I love this mod and I think it has great potential, though I don't fully understand it. It doesnt seem to have as good of a flow as the regular game, though I could be wrong.
Perhaps I was hoping for something closer to a Master of Orion 2 ... this game does sort of cross between Alpha Centauri and MOO2.
Perhaps I was hoping for something closer to a Master of Orion 2 ... this game does sort of cross between Alpha Centauri and MOO2.
I'm not surprised, just look at the XML handicap code.
That really explains why I'm having such a hard time at Monarch.
Use EPs to spy in the AI cities, those numbers a very scary.
