Immortal Students, Re-examination, Part deux !

[Takesitez]

Welcome ! Whether you are a veteran Deity or a fledgling player trying to up your game, welcome to the second iteration of me trying to roll up a map that proposes a nice challenge for players of varied skill levels.

Again; this map wasn't cooked, although I did choose the starting AI's. No place for weaklings in this world !

The last game got some positive feedback, but I still felt I spoiled you guys with the starting position and the leader, so I decided to up the difficulty a little bit, don't worry, you 'll find out the situation soon enough ! I think this should be suitably challenging on Immortal, and like last time, a true headache on Deity.

Here is the leader :

Spoiler :

Again, one of the best leaders in the game with good starting techs, an UU which is in the conversation for best in game, and no hat at all ! You are going to need to leverage his great trait combo on this trip, I promise !

And here is the start !

Spoiler :

Can't complain about this one either, now can you ?

No Huts, No Events.

I've added a worldbuilder save. To play, simply download the save into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder, choose Play a Scenario, choose your speed and difficulty level, and enjoy !
Don't forget to add the appropriate Barbarian starting techs for your difficulty level in the worldbuilder:

Spoiler barb instructions :

The handicap in the wb save has been deleted, so the AI races will start with the appropriate techs and units for your difficulty level. Barbarians should be tweaked as below:
For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in WorldBuilder as follows:

Spoiler :

Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the WorldBuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labelled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
Exit the WorldBuilder.
Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

 

[Izuul]

Which one of the flat maps is this? You can put it in spoilers if you want in case others don't want to know the map script.

 

[Takesitez]

Ok, The mapscript is :

Spoiler :

Rainforest

Here is a teaser, huge spoiler, suggest only to click if not counting to play or if extremely curious :

Spoiler :

You sure?

Spoiler :

ok then... don't say I didn't warn you! I don't think what I did here will be viable on Deity btw

Spoiler :

Once I met Shaka, I immediately planned for Oracle COL > Caste > Get 2 Merchants and build warriors > Kill Shaka before he kills me. I attacked with something like 20 axes. Barely made it to currency, other crazies took forever before they were willing to trade Alpha

 

[georgjorge]

Thanks for hosting, I'll surely give it a try!

Regarding the mapscript:

Spoiler :

Haven't played on Rainforest yet myself, but people say that AI research gets slowed down A LOT on this script. So if I manage to survive the BCs (not at all a given here) this should be easier than usual.

To first ragequit, Deity:

Spoiler :

Lost first Warrior to a Panther while healing. Lost second Warrior (Woodsman II) at very low odds. Lost third Warrior at low odds again while protecting a Worker. I hate barbs.

 

[Fippy]

Bad starting techs actually, no AH first ~~

 

[Izuul]

Mine silver first i guess. Doesn't look like the fast worker will save any turns early either due to the position of the hills.

 

[nate46]

What's the point of fast worker if you only have one forest to chop in cap radius. haha.

I'll play this one later.

 

[Benginal]

Imm, normal, NHNE.

To Turn 76:

Spoiler :

Struggled with where to settle. SIP feels silly because grassland, riverside hills are good tiles. I thought about settling 1S of the silver as there's a shortage of hammers. But that would lose us riverside grassland in favor of non-river jungle. After some waffling settled on the plains hill. The extra hammer immediately is alright and I suppose might make up for the fewer hammers later.

For techs I went hunting -> AH. I see no grains nearby so the expensive agriculture can wait. Also by building the mine and then switching to it when complete. AH comes in right where our worker is available to pasture. Hunting also useful for archery if it looks like barbs will be an issue.

I meet Alex to my south on turn 4. He must be somewhat close.

I mean why not.

Unfortunately on the trek back my warrior dies at low odds to a lion.

One of the benefits of the fast worker is how quickly they can get back home after being stolen. Got through the jungle safely.

Time worked out perfectly.

Big decision of the round here:

I seriously considered writing for libraries and an early scientist. But ditched that in favor of HBR for a horse archer rush. Decided that wasn't going to be feasible without some more worker techs I chose BW instead for whips. BW less appealing than normal because of forest shortage. But whipping will be powerful. After BW I'll go pottery for mass cottages + granary.

Settled city 2 for horses -> chariots -> kill Alex.

Note that it's turn 40 and I still haven't met anybody else. Weird map script.

A nicely positioned hill to keep track of Alex and his wanderings. He's sending out a settler party.

Turn 47 and no wonders. .

Weird map script. Given the no stonehenge I decide to pursue a late Oracle -> Monarchy using the marble south of us. Monarcy + mass cottages should work okay with all of this green land.

Sometimes the AI is so dumb? Can somebody explain this one to me. Free settler snipe.

Meet Montezuma. Also down south, but no idea how far away as he found me.

A few turns pass. I cease fire with Alex after sniping some wandering archers. Wait for my new recruits to get down and heal up. Declare after his reborn settler party is away from Athens.

Still no wonders!!!

And look what I found:

Finished off Alex after taking one last worker.

Some turns pass. I settle for the stone out west and limp towards Iron Working. Oracle comes in giving me what I think is going to be a crucial tech.

The plan is to grow on to mass cottages with monarchy happiness. Whipping settlers and workers into infra and wonders.

Montezuma and Shaka are obnoxious neighbors, obviously. But I can handle them both by settling a city on a hill near to each of them that they'll target. I'll build walls and pack the city with defensive units and let Monty and Shaka sacrifice their troops.

Wonders and quick teching means I should be able to take these guys out kind of whenever I want. I think the map nerfs the AI more than the human. The only concern is if there are leaders on the other side of the map who can settle 20+ cities and continue to tech.

 

[nate46]

Deity is for masochists! I'm playing this on immortal. (normal speed this time).

To turn 33:

Spoiler :

YAY! ANOTHER FOREST! Now I have 2.

 

[nate46]

To turn 75:

Spoiler :

Figured i'd go for a horse archer rush. Didn't want to mess with the jungle resources so i just settled four cities very close to the cap to share the pigs and whip. Just got pottery, About to build some cottages to give myself an economy. Shaka only has 3 cities, i think i can take him out with this army. Alex seems strong. He demanded horsebackriding and i gave it to him so hopefully he'll attack somebody else while i kill shaka.

 

[nate46]

Turn 80:

Spoiler :

Ok, this game is going to be easier than i thought. Apparently its a small map with only 4 civs and i've already found both the top and the bottom edge ...

Only took 5 turns to conquer shaka, and from scouting alex it doesn't seem like he has any metals either, so i can probably turn around and take him out next.

Just got writing, gonna whip a library and limp towards construction in case i need it. Since i'm philo, Im going to try to bulb math and then save my gold stack i got from shaka to tech construction once it is available. Will probably need cats to take out monte...

 

[nate46]

Turn 99. Will finish this game tomorrow maybe.

Spoiler :

Ok. I was wrong about there being only four civs! Apparently there's at least 5! And i've also learned that you can't determine where the edge of the map is by how far west you can scroll, because that's dependent on what you've discovered... so who knows how far west this map actually extends...

greece bribed monte and mehmed to war with me as i declared on him, but haven't seen their stacks yet. Razed 2 greek cities and captured 3 others, he has 3 left. I took 4 of his techs for peace. i'll probably finish him off in 10 turns.

Can go elepults from here on out, if horse archers stop working...

Not sure where monte and mehmed's stacks are, if they even exist...

 

[Izuul]

Unless he tinkered with the map...

Spoiler :

Rainforest maps are huge (as are all flat maps except possibly inland sea) and there are probably 6 opponents. It definitely has the potential for a long game.

 

[Benginal]

Unless he tinkered with the map...

Spoiler :

Rainforest maps are huge (as are all flat maps except possibly inland sea) and there are probably 6 opponents. It definitely has the potential for a long game.

Indeed. It changes the nature of the game a bit. Can we win conquest before an AI expands to a huge size? Yes on immortal, on deity?

 

[nate46]

turn 120:

Spoiler :

I think this map script is not good for AI development, haha... its the ADs now and i swear this is immortal yet nobody has built the oracle... or the pyramids... stonehenge went a few turns ago and so I finally got my 35 fail gold... LOL would have been more useful 2000 years ago... I think i'm going to try to 5 pop whip the oracle in sparta, and use that for feudalism... got a forest to chop there, too... wonder if i'll get it. Its too bad i never settled that marble.

Alex was annoying in that he settled a bunch of cities which along with mountains completely blocked off my path to monte. so i had to wait until the peace treaty expired before i could kill monte. Alex is dead now and monte only has 2 crappy cities left. Will raze those then push west. I don't even know where mehmed is, but whoever is west of monte is in serious trouble.

My economy is actually much better than it looks... a lot of that is combat unit maintenance... if i somehow lose my army somehow and start building more gold i could probably get my beakers per turn to a reasonable number. I also have loads of cottages and hamlets and once they grow i'll be trucking along. The army is still making bank for now, so it pays for itself.

I settled great scientist #2. will make an academy with great scientist #3, then i'll push to full research and tech towards guilds.

 

[nate46]

Cao Cao, Legendary Hero of many triumphant wars, has finally met his match! Will he remain undefeated? find out, next episode!

Spoiler :

Also:

Spoiler :

Something is horribly wrong when you can oracle feudalism in 275 ad on immortal ...

 

[georgjorge]

@nate46:

Spoiler :

Nice, a strong Horse Archer rush that lasted surprisingly long! Strong play.

 

[nate46]

@georgjorge

Spoiler :

you were right when you said earlier that AI development is slow on this map!

I think for maps like this you just have to ignore the dates. Growth is going to be stunted due to lack of forests to chop, or good 2nd city spots, but that's OK because the AI is doing even worse, so horse archers still work even in the ADs. I could probably have cleaned them all out with pure horse archers if it wasn't for caesar's UU. Gonna upgrade them all to knights soon and finish him off, once i'm done with mehmed...

 

[nate46]

Turn 146:

Spoiler :

Cao Cao fought, and he cowardly fled! Ack! What a coward!

Later he died in combat, but that's OK. His fellow, more valiant horse archers will soon be knighted!

anyway... Most of Mehmed's cities were a bit too well defended for horse archers to work, so i only took one of them (my only loss being the cowardly Cao Cao). Made peace, and i'll use his city as a base to attack caesar. Started up a golden age with great scientist #4. gonna pump out a ton of knights and upgrade a ton of horse archers to knights, and then whip a bunch of knights and go to town on caesar soon.

Caesar still doesn't have metal casting yet, and just got monarchy, his best defenders should still be praets.

 

[nate46]

done @ 1260 ad

Spoiler :