Importance of Air and Sea

[MajorGeneral2]

Air and naval superiority has been very important historically, and I believe it to be in Civ2, as well. In fact, I've added some sea/air units to my copy to further emphasize it. How many here agree? If done right, I find that attack by sea/air war can carry a civ to prominence.

 

[geofelt]

I find these units to be interesting, but not effective. I rarely build air units, and I use the navy only to transport ground units. In a rare occasion, I may build some ironclads to attack a port city.

 

[bellisaurius]

Having either air or naval superiority in the game allows you many more tactical options than ground troops alone. Is the terrain tough? Just fly over it. Well fortified? Let the cruiser nail it.

I hate having to bum rush cities with ground troops alone. You're forced into simple battering ram tactics, with some slip-thru blitzkrieg type manuevers.

As a weakness, however, I will admit to usually building too many navy units. I don't know, a little to much Alfred Thayer Mayhan on the brain

 

[Sodak]

Yes, they add an enjoyable element to the game. I am fond of my civ navy, from the creaky wooden bathtubs to the cruisers. Air units don't usually come into play in my games, but I do enjoy mowing down AI legions and pikemen with fighters.

Naval domination ensures safe caravan and invasion deliveries, aside from the general joy of seeing a loaded AI galleon gobbled by the waves.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

I am also an affecianado of air and sea power, and think it is a pity the are fairly much ignored in the game.
If trade and supply by the sea were a major factor, then it would be fun to run anti-sub campaigns with some meaning. But it is not to be.

 

[sethos]

I only build ships to carry freight and diplos ...

 

[gatomarado]

The best strategy is the ground with naval/air support.
A good army force to defend and occupy territories (not necessarily big but well equiped)
A good naval force for "armed projection" (carriers, aegis cruisers, submarines and transports).
A good air force to support land and naval forces (sth figthers) and to bomb the enemy (sth bombers).


No i'm not working at pentagon.

 

[Marlos]

Naval superiority is a must, unless you are on one big continent which makes it less important. This may be a carryover from my Civ1 days, where the AI would indiscriminately park a rifleman on the hills next to your city, and you couldn't demand that he leave!

As soon as I get the ability, I build enough naval units to patrol my "borders" and clear the waters of any chaff that may be floating around, especially galleons, transports, since battleships and cruisers cannot carry troops -go figure!

Air superiority is needed as well, since bomber ignore city walls, and a few veteran bombers go a long way! Plus, air units can quickly move from one front to another, depending upon where the conflicts arise.

 

[MajorGeneral2]

Before the SAMs become available, I often use bombers to "soften up" defenses within cities. After SDI, they can still be used against wandering troops. As mentioned by Marlos, they're useful for keeping that idiot AI off your butt, and can prevent any amphibious landings (though the AI rarely, if ever, does that). For increased importance, try adding techs and sea\air units to your own copy.

 

[Ace]

Thats why Civ is such a great game! There is something for everyone and each new game is different.

But, it is a combined arms game, just like the real thing. It takes infantry to take and hold the ground, but air and naval forces certainly lead the way for them.

 

[ferenginar]

In general I tend to go for the building of a big civ, rather than the early win, thus I concentrate on expansion. Destroy all other civs on your continent and make peace with visitors

Air units are not normally used until later, I rarely build fighters though bombers are useful, and I always go for the Stealth versions of each.

I build transport ships early on to colonise other continents / islands and leave the combat version until later, battleships, Aegis cruisers and Aircraft carriers. I will occasionally build the earlier units but only if there is an AI naval presence that is annoying me.

ferenginar

 

[starlifter]

For me, I'm a huge fan of Naval Superority. I love the Port facility, Shakespeare's, and Democracy. With sea control, great battles can take place on land and on sea. In general, aside from GOTMs, I like conquering larges AI civs in one turn, or at least in massive efficient maneuvers. Fighters (no bombers or choppers), a power navy, and swarms of freight, spies, and engineers form the bulk of the fround attack, with enough defenders to keep the AI out of conquered territory . But a good navy is what makes it go smooothly!

(insert Sodak's post here, LOL...)

 

[Dark Ascendant]

Sea power is a must for me. It gains importance I think when ironclads first appear. The ironclad is an effective floating seige engine. It will mow down any defensive units immediatly other than a musketeer or better. I build them along with troop vessels and soldiers, when the time is right, I can simultaniasly take a number of AI coastal cities. The ironclads blast away at any defenders and the boats land troops in disarmed cities. I go along the coast with my ironclad/ship/troop group and take over all the coatal cities. I usually start with cities away from the enemy's home continent. This way, I can halt their colonization efforts. After subduing the outer cities, my group travel along the coastline and take over all the coastal cities, at this time, I make sure that the enemy does not have either gunpowder or steam engine. Magnitism is annoying when frigates show up but not damaging to my force.

By taking all the coastal cities off-continent and on the continent, I have halted the enemy's expansion and made sure that he will be contained to that single continent. This obviously works better when the enemy is on an island continent and not overly expansionistic. In my last game the French fragmented their civ so much that I quited the game in frustration and started a new one. Now I do this to the Carthaginians with much better results... After I've cornered the enemy, it's a simple matter to muster enough ground force and/or dips&spies and close in on the ground cities.

I feel that the navy is most effective when you have steam engine & The Lighthouse before gunpowder and metallurgy is in your enemy's hands, and most useless in the trierme/caravel times. When the game starts, I don't bother with sea power, when Navigation, Magnetism and steam engine comes out, I take an interest, especially since steam engine gives me a way to "punish my enemies."-Military Advisor.

I am more or less clueless about naval warfare or sea power in the modern era though, does anyone have any comments and advise on that?

 

[MajorGeneral2]

I'm disappointed in the game's early naval units. I have the trireme split into two units: "Wooden Transport," and "Warship."
As for modern naval advice, it depends on your situation. For amphibious warfare, all you need are transports and cruisers/destroyers to protect them. For general superiority, a mixture of destroyers, cruisers, and several battleships (if you can build them in a reasonable time frame) will do fine. Carriers can be used if you have a far-flung archipelago empire. Subs are best used for sneak attacks. If you don't have the element of surprise, you'll just suffer casualties.

 

[Dark Ascendant]

Originally posted by MajorGeneral2
Subs are best used for sneak attacks. If you don't have the element of surprise, you'll just suffer casualties.

I regard subs with mixed feelings. They are powerful on offense and capable of taking out unescorted carriers and battleships or transports because they are invisible to them. but are incapable of getting away, attack consecutively or defend themselves against modern warships.

With Magellan I can solve one of these problems. I've only had success with them hunting for ships in groups and advanced warning and/or cover from other warships and airpower. What do you think is a good way to utilize the submarine into an anti-ship killer that can survive without missiles?

 

[SunTzu]

I like carriers filled with bombers and cruise missles. Knock out cities with long range weapons like bombers and/or cruise missles. Then send in the ground troops.
If the AI would be better at building a navy/air force then the sea/air would be more important.
If all countries have nukes, i like to build subs and load them up with nukes just incase the AI decides to nuke me cause i'll keep my nuke subs beside all of the AI cities

 

[MajorGeneral2]

Actually, the fact that the AI doesn't build much in the way of Navies doesn't make it less important. It just gives you a bigger advantage! As for subs, I don't use them often. My advice is to use them for the same purpose they had historically: sink transports and already weakened ships. Certainly, Magellan's helps, and you don't want to send a sub into the rare cluster of ships.

 

[SomeGuyNamedRob]

Originally posted by MajorGeneral2
Air and naval superiority has been very important historically, and I believe it to be in Civ2, as well. In fact, I've added some sea/air units to my copy to further emphasize it. How many here agree? If done right, I find that attack by sea/air war can carry a civ to prominence.

I find air/sea units to be a crucial part of a good war effort, especially against heavily fortified cities. If you happen to be playing against the British, a Navy is crucial to victory.

 

[Old n Slow]

Of late (where this could be translated as within the last two years), I’ve found sea & air power to be interesting, but less important features of the game. I use sea forces to find new places to visit & I need enough sea capability to get my invasion forces to my target. My big sea search push usually occurs with ironclads (future vet destroyers w/Leo’s & STWA) from the SSC; cruisers and battleships appear depending upon who’s left when those techs arrive.

Air power is still a toss up call. I’m usually leading the tech race & I usually postpone flight until forced into it (again the SSC effect). Depending on how well I learn the caravan/freight lessons, I may push that tech forward.

I may try a game at a high level where I play “poorly” on purpose to allow the ai to become competitive & then see what I have to do to get out of the jam.

 

[Kev]

I'm in agreement with Old n Slow. The AI is poor enough when it comes to land battles, but with naval and air battles they are absolutely pitiful. As well, by the time any decently fun air-weapons are available I have the game pretty well in hand.

Naval is better than air warfare, however. There is at least an interesting variety of naval units to use, and the AI can sometimes put some out to sea. Of course, they never support each other and seem to attack randomly, but what the hey.

I agree, with ironclads one can get a jump on some coastal AI property very nicely - a vet will take out even musketeers pretty handily. The AI is good about city walls, but coastal fortresses often take a little longer to show up.

I was very disappointed in Civ3 as they really seemed to move BACKWARD when it came to both naval and air battles. I wish that they would have made them more of a factor, but the whole bombardment issue is just really doofy.