Importance of Air and Sea

[starlifter]

A "real game" example of the power of Nava Superority is in GOTM 17, where Naval Superority is responsible for conquering my nearest, then on to the most dangerous rival with only minimal land unit support. My Magellan/Sun Tzu Vet Ironclads wipe out the Archers and Phalanxes of all coastal cities, and the coastal capital, then after a musketeer slides into the empty capital, the interior city falls with mere Dip, prepositioned and covered by a musketeer to avoid teh "face to face" issue which could stop the war. The rest of the enemy empire falls to occupation or bribes from teh sea, and the Ironclads attack without senate interruption!

Of course, the AI also loses any cargo-laden ships that put to sea.

In my current game, I plan to use naval superority to level a civ I've never met yet. Land units can't do this without "meeting" the AI civ.

So I'm a big fan of Naval superiority, esp. when in Democracy (& ironclads, e.g., can protect the Trade Galleons)

 

[Sodak]

If you want the AI to have a chance on the waves, let it (or cheat mode) have metallurgy and steel - it will build coastal fortresses and cruisers. You will need to defend your transports (seems obvious, but in a normal game the AIs ships are all broken pieces of driftwood...), use stronger attack forces against cities, and other shifts in your unit use. It might make it interesting.

 

[SomeGuyNamedRob]

Originally posted by Sodak
If you want the AI to have a chance on the waves, let it (or cheat mode) have metallurgy and steel - it will build coastal fortresses and cruisers. You will need to defend your transports (seems obvious, but in a normal game the AIs ships are all broken pieces of driftwood...), use stronger attack forces against cities, and other shifts in your unit use. It might make it interesting.

Sometimes the English wil, go for "sea techs" on their own in games I've played. They still can't attack effectively, but they do make things a little more interesting.

 

[Ace]

The best way I have found to utilize subs is to hide them in port cities and when the AI ships show up, blast away!! It seems futile to send the subs (even with WOW's added movement) out on offensive patrols. The AI always knows where they are, which really precludes sneak attacks, and subs are deadmeat on defense. (I once lost one to a caraval years ago!)

Therefore, I rarely build a sub. However, in MP against a human opponent who does not have the AI "see all" advantage, subs can be fun to use.

 

[funxus]

The no-see advantage is only useful against transports. Sincew destroyers and cruisers can see them, that advantage is lost. And it has two less on attack then Battleships have on defense. Though this could even out with the sub being veteran.
The sub is losing effect since destroyers and cruisers can see them, while it's strange why BB) ) can't see them, shouldn't they turn up on radars or something like that.
I think they should be invisible to all units when you develop stealth, or have a new sub with stealth properties.

 

[starlifter]

The best way I have found to utilize subs is to hide them in port cities and when the AI ships show up, blast away!

On occasion, quite a while ago when I would only use Democracies in really late game (like 1900's), I played around at times with subs as Nuke carriers, and as naval control. One method is to use them at the bottom of a stack:

Vet BB
Vet BB
Vet AEGIS
Vet AEGIS (&up to 2 more in heavy and/or vet CM attacks)
... anything that needs protection ...
Vet Sub


The stack would typically protect the arrival of transports near enemy locations, and was fairly static to allow ships to recover from constant CM & bomber strikes. The sub would strike any nearby target, like a transport, and return to the stack to recover. This allows a "cheap" unit to take care of minor offensive duties while allowing the Big Boys to slug it out. The vet sub was expendable against fresh vet AI BB's, in order to ensure the stack could not be lost to an AI vet BB. Spies determine where vet BBs are produced, BTW. No AI vet BBs which gain vet status exist because AI BB's are exterminated on sight, one way or the other...

So that's one use of Vet Subs (with Magellans, of course) that I used to do.......

 

[Marlos]

Originally posted by Ace
The best way I have found to utilize subs is to hide them in port cities and when the AI ships show up, blast away!! It seems futile to send the subs (even with WOW's added movement) out on offensive patrols. The AI always knows where they are, which really precludes sneak attacks, and subs are deadmeat on defense. (I once lost one to a caravel years ago!)

Great strategy, Ace! It would seem that a coastal fortress and a veteran submarine in port would make a coastal city impregnable!

On the other hand, to echo starlifter's thoughts, I typically only build subs as part of an intercontinental invasion force and load it with cruise missiles. I use an AEGIS to patrol the nearby waters just in case an enemy ship gets through.

Nevertheless, this thread has reminded me of one of the other "AI stupidities" that we list ad nauseaum -- the AI ships routinely patrol along coastlines, but are rarely (if ever) seen on an "indirect" path to an enemy. To sneak in on the AI (with a missile-laden sub, for example), don't take the direct path. Come in from the side door, back door, or from the polar ice cap.