Improving the Demogame (yet again...)

[Chieftess]

There's no denying it. People ARE becoming disenchanted with the demogame. Several have resigned this term and last. Even I think its' lost its' touch. Some of the veteran players are using their knowledge of loopholes and their experience to gain an advantage over the newer players. Not just in the demogame, but in the RPG, and letting the RPG affect the demogame. This is starting to become a "3-player-succession-game-playground".

What I'm trying for is citizen input. Not just from the vets, but newbies, and semi-newbies to the game. Bill_in_PDX resigned, and wrote what I thought was completely true about the state of the demogame...

 

[GenMarshall]

Originally posted by Chieftess
Some of the veteran players are using their knowledge of loopholes and their experience to gain an advantage over the newer players.

I can agree with that one Big Time about veteran players (I call them Elite Players ). I wonder whatever happened to the "No mentioning of any DG1 Acheavements" . I agree on improving the game to have some of the non-Elite Players can have a chance of running for a 1+ term office .

 

[disorganizer]

I wonder at which point the rpg influences the demogame? (except people not really paying attention to it, because we cant influence that by rules)

 

[Chieftess]

Well.. there was that one instance where Cyc didn't want a city in one tile because he bought that tile in the RPG...

 

[Cyc]

No, CT. I hadn't bought the tile. Octavian had put the highest bid on a tile that I had never bid on. You went out of your way to suggest placing a city on a tile that you knew was already within our cultural borders (and hence up for sale in the RPG). Even though your suggestion was to close to other cities and not fully securing the surrounding resources, you suggested it anyway, as at that time, you were flaming the RPG as influencing the Demogame and you knew this suggestion would instigate a response from anyone who was paying attention.

It was an obvious attempt on your part, I don't believe you would have made such an erroroneous suggestion otherwise. Seems like you might be a little bitter because your over-priced weapons shop didn't do very well in the RPG.

 

[Chieftess]

That had nothing to do with the RPG. I was trying to bring about a tight-build discussion. Sure the borders overlap, but it's less corruption, and thus quicker production. I used to be against the idea myself. Just look at the first term of the first demogame!

I did not have the RPG in mind when placing that city.

 

[Grandmaster]

I have to agree that the so-called Elites would seem to be in control of the game. When I first came in as a newbie, I noticed the same handful of names coming up over and over again... and that same handful of names, plus a few more who made a big name for themselves in the last DG, are still coming up over and over again. It makes sense: people will choose leaders who are experienced and know what they are doing. But we need to give the semi-newbies a chance (I'd say the total newbies maybe need a little more experience before they enter government.) As for the RPG affecting the GD, I've noticed that its a problem but I don't think its an epidemic. Personally, if people are going to vote something down because it hurts them in the RPG, let them, but they should keep their opinions to themselves. Vote "NO" but don't say because its RPG-based. Just vote the same "NO" as someone who is going that way for a pure GD reason. And the daily rant ends...

 

[Strider]

My whole problem is with people trying to take over and influence the entire demogame into making a decision. I don't know if you guys would calle me an elite player or not, but I took over the Science Department early.... The newbie's are complaning about how the elite's get all of the offices. It's simple why.... They proved themselves. I was Science Chat Rep and Science Deputy before I was leader.... I worked my way up and proved I could do the job. If you want a poistion you have to do something to prove that you are the best in the area. Become chat rep... then hope for a deputy poistion... As I did.

 

[Grandmaster]

Personally, Strider, I do consider you among the elite. Unlike several others, though, I don't consider you to be a "canniving plutocrat" (quote: my social studies teacher on George W). Yes, you took over the science dept, but you were qualified, and once in office you didn't exploit power and try to use it as a stepping stone for conquering the entire game. True, if you want something in the game, work your way up and achieve it. But we have to give the new guys a chance to take the first step! When you have vets dominating every step of the way, the newbies can't even began to climb the ladder. Keep vets off the bottom rung and give the youngsters on the block a chance to show their stuff. Give the seed some time to grow, and it will. There has to be a new wave of talent to replace those who resign, or else in a couple of terms this game is going to be non-existent.

End rant #2

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Grandmaster
Personally, Strider, I do consider you among the elite. Unlike several others, though, I don't consider you to be a "canniving plutocrat" (quote: my social studies teacher on George W). Yes, you took over the science dept, but you were qualified, and once in office you didn't exploit power and try to use it as a stepping stone for conquering the entire game. True, if you want something in the game, work your way up and achieve it. But we have to give the new guys a chance to take the first step! When you have vets dominating every step of the way, the newbies can't even began to climb the ladder. Keep vets off the bottom rung and give the youngsters on the block a chance to show their stuff. Give the seed some time to grow, and it will. There has to be a new wave of talent to replace those who resign, or else in a couple of terms this game is going to be non-existent.

End rant #2

Actually... I'vve done my part in helping newbies... IE: Stuck... who is now up in the top and Curufinwe.... Both started in the Science Department. I don't know exactly what I did, but about everyone in the Science Department has gone to come atleast vets

 

[Grandmaster]

True.... although SaaM started out pretty fast.... within a coupla months of my meeting him/ his joining the game, he was already head of a province....

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Grandmaster
True.... although SaaM started out pretty fast.... within a coupla months of my meeting him/ his joining the game, he was already head of a province....

Alittle bit of my help.... He was just head of science in asphinxia, but I invited him to join the science department (made him my science chat rep).

 

[Grandmaster]

OK, I won't contest the point of whether or not you helped SaaM.... honestly don't think it bears to much importance in the face of this particular topic, but yes, you did help him. And come to think of it, without you I woukdn't be Honors Sub-Manager either..... although I think myself and most everyone else already forgot we have an Honor's Sub-Manager...

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Grandmaster
OK, I won't contest the point of whether or not you helped SaaM.... honestly don't think it bears to much importance in the face of this particular topic, but yes, you did help him. And come to think of it, without you I woukdn't be Honors Sub-Manager either..... although I think myself and most everyone else already forgot we have an Honor's Sub-Manager...

Actually.... I still remember.... But I hired you in the first place.... So I wonder if that counts.

 

[Grandmaster]

Good enough for me..... conspicuously getting back on topic....

 

[Strider]

I think what is making the demogame less fun is what is currently happening.... People are using const. loopholes etc. to get what they want done.... and it's making the game feel less like a democracy. Also their is less fun stuff happening. Like in DG1 when had the quiz and other stuff like that happen. Now it's just business, business, business.

 

[GenMarshall]

I started out being a Mayor of El Armana in Asphinxia and then I went for the Military Departmen, Though I ended up losing to Falcon02 and Eklektikos but then in Term 2 I became a Leader. .
Basicly I had to thank Falcon02 and Almightyjosh for helping me to be come a vet of the Demogame .

 

[Grandmaster]

Yeah, Strider, I definitely agree when it comes to less fun stuff and gov't "semi-tyranny." Part of the problem is the fall of the Citizen Group: nobody to organize fun stuff. For instance, SaaM's GEG had a whole plan to build a museum, have an Analyze Your Dreams thing going, etc. but then the group fell apart and now the plan's have been cancelled. If we want to bring back the fun element, people are going to have to participate in groups. As for people's usage of loopholes, that will just have to be dealt with by enacting and writing tougher laws, electing ethical leaders, and making sure that the checks & balances system in our gov't. isn't overlooked by lazy leaders or citizens. For instance, it's asking for trouble to not have even 1 leader available to vote on something. Somebody should be there at all times, IMHO.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Grandmaster
Yeah, Strider, I definitely agree when it comes to less fun stuff and gov't "semi-tyranny." Part of the problem is the fall of the Citizen Group: nobody to organize fun stuff. For instance, SaaM's GEG had a whole plan to build a museum, have an Analyze Your Dreams thing going, etc. but then the group fell apart and now the plan's have been cancelled. If we want to bring back the fun element, people are going to have to participate in groups. As for people's usage of loopholes, that will just have to be dealt with by enacting and writing tougher laws, electing ethical leaders, and making sure that the checks & balances system in our gov't. isn't overlooked by lazy leaders or citizens. For instance, it's asking for trouble to not have even 1 leader available to vote on something. Somebody should be there at all times, IMHO.

Yes, exactly.... A overall rule we can put done is:

The goverment is directly under the citizens control. Any decision can be overruled by 2 citizens. If it is a judicialy announcment then it will be polled.

Or something like this.

 

[Grandmaster]

We'd have a hard time pulling it off.... people would make a "they want a direct-citizen democracy to ovethrow the government" claim like they did the last time someone brought up the idea...

But I like it.