1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[R&F] Inevitable thread on "Flirtatious" and "Curmudgeon" straights-only traits

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Stringer1313, Feb 8, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,886
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Hopefully there will be mods to remove agendas that you can never please.

    Then it won't be a problem.
     
  2. Chasethemage

    Chasethemage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    39
    Gender:
    Male
    Or maybe curmudgeon means that they're sexist. Like, "my gender is superior to yours" or "men/women shouldn't be leaders"
     
  3. JosephC

    JosephC Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    111
    What's with you kids today.

    Definition of curmudgeon
    a crusty, ill-tempered, and usually old man

    I immediately took it they are sexist. It's that they don't think the opposite sex should be considered equal... that they shouldn't lead. Not that they're gay/lesbian..

    *sigh* Here.. you might relate more to this:


    edit: Thank you @Chasethemage

    edit2: ...And stay off my lawn !!
     
    Banazir864, nzcamel, MrRadar and 3 others like this.
  4. h0nk0815

    h0nk0815 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    295
    Why not be relaxed and don't care about that?
     
    narmox and Eric Guimarães like this.
  5. isau

    isau Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,068
    I wish it was tied to the gender of your selected governors instead of your leader. That way you could decide to please them, make them angry, or go down the middle road with your selections.

    I DO kind of like the idea of seducing a foreign leader with your all female/all male governor team, for the LOLs.
     
  6. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,652
    This is a good idea, since you could actually play wiht the agenda isntead of just being screwed (literally!)
     
  7. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,182
    Location:
    STL
    I'm as progressive as anyone, but I don't think just because a leader would prefer a leader of the same gender or someone of the opposite gender would make them straight. I don't really see how you can jump to that conclusion.

    If anything, the problem is that assuming there are only two genders. There were historical rumors that Queen Elizabeth was transgender. If she was in the game, how would they treat that?
     
    Vandlys likes this.
  8. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer King

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    724
    Gender:
    Male
    It's fine for me gameplay-wise - so maybe you can't make a curmudgeon like you. You can still play that game in other ways, which is fun to me.

    I think it'd be better with a mod that could make AI Leaders randomly gay, though. Seems like it could be a simple enough edit.
     
  9. Arent11

    Arent11 King

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2016
    Messages:
    990
    The greatest obstacles to "progress" are natural science & the needs of 13 year old straight teenage boys :)

    Natural science is the eternal enemy of any kind of ideology & the needs of 13 year old straight teenage
    boys could not even be tamed by christianity, although they tried for 1000 years.
     
    nzcamel likes this.
  10. darkace77450

    darkace77450 Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,085
    A gay Saladin is the exact reason I assumed they didn't make homosexual attraction an agenda. That would probably go over about as well as Muhammad being depicted as a Great Prophet. If this is what they wanted to avoid, they could have avoided any controversy altogether by just not adding the new traits. But @Scaramanga does raise a valid point; there's something to be said for adding a random agenda that you cannot satisfy or violate no matter what. It takes away agency, sure, but it still adds a new dynamic to the game. To say that you can't play around a neighboring Shaka who's going to dislike you from Day One isn't exactly true. You have the information you need to know he's coming for you sooner or later, so you have to prepare your defenses and expand your empire accordingly. The counter play isn't satisfying the agenda, it's preparing for it's fallout.
     
  11. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer King

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2012
    Messages:
    724
    Gender:
    Male
    Saladin, Teddy, Qin Shi Huang... there are a lot of places where this could cause a lot of furor, But I pretty much exactly agree with this comment, which is why, again, I think the best thing would be a well-distributed fanmod to handle it. (I wish I could code. I would happily do this myself.)
     
    Drakul and BenZL43 like this.
  12. Inhalaattori

    Inhalaattori Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2003
    Messages:
    1,490
    Location:
    Up North
    The whole "gay identity" is modern Western concept that has little historical meaning. Just like historically marriage has practically nothing to do with romantical love. Modern western ideas of love/sexuality/marriage are alien to people who lived in the past and actually they are still alien to 90% of people living in the world today.
     
    esvath, Equilin, Wheat4Days and 3 others like this.
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,843
    Is that a treaty in your pocket?

    Disagree, the agendas are junk. Whether my avatar in game is male shouldn't be the driving point on whether they're trying to send 15 tanks my way. What should matter is what I'm doing in the game and how close I am to winning it.

    Creating game objectives and then instructing player replacements to ignore those objectives and play a different game is anti-gameplay design. This problem is not unique to these two new agendas, but adding garbage doesn't reduce garbage. You just get more garbage.
     
  14. conorbebe

    conorbebe King

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2017
    Messages:
    739
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    There are no confirmed homosexuals in the game currently, but Frederick the Great comes to mind.
     
  15. Vandlys

    Vandlys Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    546
    Location:
    New Atlantis
    Remember that non-binary, heteronormative relationships (i.e. man - woman, woman - man) existed many, many centuries ago, simultaneously in different empires with monogamy. Just because we, nowadays, are "used" to monogamy (nudges slightly towards rates of adultery in the US), doesn't mean this is -the- way to go.
    The Ancient Greeks didn't have the same values put on relationships we do now, neither did the Romans, neither did the Indians, neither did some African tribes/civilizations. There probably are many others that I don't know about, and yeah, there probably are also a lot of relationship standards that exist like some current ones, the ones you may call "normal". That, again, however, doesn't mean it's the only way to go.

    Firaxis making a game about alternate history, but history nonetheless, should not have been so blunt and blind in my opinion : )

    This. 100% this. Can't support this statement enough, thank you for writing it so eloquently!
     
    rattatatouille, Drakul and Japper007 like this.
  16. kamex

    kamex Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,272
    Location:
    UK
    Well... Alexander maybe...

    Nevertheless I don't think this agenda should be in the game as there is no reasonable play-around, with possibly exception of a future Catherine the Great normal agenda - but that's mostly for civ tradition.
     
    Quoth the Raven and Vandlys like this.
  17. DeutschDachs

    DeutschDachs Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    1,013
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I don't mind curmudgeon as a gameplay mechanic. Some people are predisposed to dislike you. That's life. I don't agree with the idea that every leader must be possible to be friends with every game.

    That they based it around sex is kind of awkward. Can you imagine if they made an agenda where leaders disliked others based on the color of their skin? Both would be entirely accurate historically of course but it probably wouldn't go over very well.
     
    Quoth the Raven and Vandlys like this.
  18. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,346
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    And the thing is, is there any evidence leaders let their personal affections affect their interactions with other world leaders (Cleopatra aside)? While many leaders do have affairs, I don't think a single one pursued an affair with a head of state. John F. Kennedy was happy enough with Marilyn Monroe (though that's not confirmed), I doubt he ever once flirted with a head of state.
     
  19. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,320
    It's a stupid set of agendas, but if they can tweak leader preferences so that Gandhi prefers nuke-heavy more often than not I'm sure they can have Alexander be Flirty less often than normal.
     
  20. earlc

    earlc Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2017
    Messages:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, they probably should have gone without this. It's clearly too complex for broad strokes, and to add the nuance necessary it probably wouldn't be worth the amount of work. If their goal was further humanizing the leaders, I don't think this does much to that end. Just take sex out of it.

    Only other way to handle it is to approach it in a more absurd and humorous way, but that's not really the type of game civ is or needs to be.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page