Interrogating Captured Spies (The Missing Cat-&-Mouse Game)

[steveg700]

Problem: Espionage should provide a sense of playing a cat-and-mouse game with other civ's. Instead, it's more like a game of Battleship where all the ships take only one hit; spies and counterspies operates without even a vague awareness of each other's presence until a mission either succeeds or fails. If the mission fails, you might capture the spy, but so what? Captured spies have no value other than for trading back to their owner. It's a missed opportunity.

Solution:

1. Tier-2 government plaza buildings (foreign ministry, grand chapel, intelligence agency) all have a "cell" slot where captured spies can be placed for interrogation. There's a GUI not unlike slotting a great work or relic.
2. A civilization with a captured spy in this slot can assign spy to government plaza to for a Prisoner Interrogation mission.
3. On a failure, the spy may remain a prisoner (try again possible), or the spy may be killed outright (suicide pill, naturally), or the spy may be able attempt escape (similar to a failed mission result), or on the worst possible result, the prisoner can escape and the interrogator is killed.
4. On a success, the spy is removed from the slot and cannot be interrogated again (but can still be traded back). Receive a random reward, which might include:
   • Reveal the current location of all of the prisoner's fellow spies for a fixed amount of time (without the other civ knowing you know).
   • Cancel all of that civ's current missions.
   • Provide increased visibility and chance of success for missions (like a Listening Post, but with a long duration, and can stack with Listening Post).
   • Automatically succeed at performing a mission that the prisoner's civ had previously committed against the interrogator's civ, essentially allow for the reversal of a Siphon Funds, Great Works Heist, Disrupt Rocketry, etc.
   • Gain a large number of grievances and/or casus beli against the civ (dirty laundry aired).
5. Supplemental: If the spy is traded back, the owner is notified after the trade whether or not it was interrogated. An interrogated spy suffers a "burned" penalty for a while, operating at a level lower.
6. Supplemental: Allow for a spy in the cell to be rescued from captivity by another spy via an Extraction mission. In this case, the captured spy probably needs to stew in its cell for ten turns or so before it can be interrogated, otherwise the window for attempting an extraction becomes too tricky to bother with.
7. Supplemental: add an Escape Artist promotion for spies that makes them two levels higher for purposes of counter interrogation, increasing their chances of the Interrogate Prisoner mission failing and allowing all fellow captured spies to escape with it. Maybe also add a promotion to make a spy better at interrogation (Profiler, Truth Serum, or Dentist). And maybe a promotion to decrease chances of a counterspy capturing a spy (Honeypot, Flytrap, or Sting Operator).
8. Supplemental: Add some perk for having the Intelligence Agency, like an extra cell so that two spies can be interrogated simultaneously.

In general, have some component of the intelligence game that can be played more deeply for those who care to, laying traps and trying to gain an edge. And make the common task of just setting all spies on counterspy lead to some active play.

 

[AntSou]

I like this idea, but I'm wary of going too far with it. Adding too much complexity might have unintended consequences and end up becoming a chore rather than fun. So here are some thoughts which work from your suggestion but curb it a little bit.

Visually:

Description:
1. Captured Spies appear in the Espionage Screen.
2. May place a Spy in a Home City Centre or Government Plaza to conduct 'Interrogate Spy' Mission, as long as there are captured spies available. No limit to the amount of such missions you can conduct, as long as you have the necessary requirements (a captured spy, an available Spy, and an available Centre/Plaza).
3. Each Captured Spy may only be interrogated once. Outcome, regardless of interrogation successful or unsuccessful:
- Spy Killed;
- Small chance of Captured Spy escaping, depending on its level and promotions;
- If interrogated by Master Spy, chance of surviving. May conduct second interrogation or trade or do nothing.
- There's no chance of your own Spies dying.
4. Available missions depend on the level of the captured Spy.
5. Any Home Spy can conduct any available mission, but chance of success depends on the level of the Home spy (obviously).
6. Appropriate promotions to a) increase efficiency of Interrogation and b) increase chance of surviving and escaping if being interrogated (independent of Ace Driver)


Available Missions: (depend on captured spy rank)

All
- Convert Spy to your cause (if slots available by end of mission). Retain all promotions.

Recruit
- Increase Diplomatic Visibility with this Civ by 1 for X turns (Not 100% chance, but gains a promotion on successful interrogation, unlike Listening Post mission).

Agent
- Increase Diplomatic Visibility with this Civ by 1 for X*y turns.
- Enemy Spies from this Civ in your land operate at 1 level below usual for X turns.

Secret Agent
- Increase Diplomatic Visibility with this Civ by 1 for X*z turns.
- Enemy Spies from this Civ in your land operate at 1 level below usual for X*y turns.
- Reveal all of this Civ's Spies and all undergoing missions for 3 turns.

Master Spy
- Increase Diplomatic Visibility with this Civ by 1 for X*z turns.
- Enemy Spies from this Civ in your land operate at 1 level below usual for X*y turns.
- Reveal all of this Civ's Spies and all undergoing missions for 3 turns. Sabotage one such mission anywhere (immediately cancels it).

(potential values: y = 1.25, z = 1.5)

(Chance of Spy not dying or escaping if interrogated by a Master Spy. If so, may perform another interrogate mission on same captured spy, including Conversion mission)


These missions I gave are a bit dull and need improvement (other than Spy conversion which I really like), but you can kind of see the pattern I'm going for.

EDIT: I'd add your grievances mission somewhere. But it's important not to add too many missions.
______________________

For reference, these are the main changes from your suggestion:

- No Cells;
- Captured spies' fate independent of outcome of interrogation mission;
- No chance of own spies dying;
- Chance of captured spy surviving interrogation only if conducted by Master Spy;
- No added trade back or other notification mechanics. Just do a simple If survive, then loop, where by loop you're just back at the Interrogate/Trade/Nothing options.
- No rescue missions or mechanics. Chance of escape depends on relevant promotion.

_______________________

EDIT 2 - Forgot to add: trades may be attempted by yourself or the Civ the Spy belongs to even during an active interrogation mission. If the trade is agreed, the interrogation is cancelled and you lose the captured spy as per usual.

 

[steveg700]

Wow, thanks for taking such an interest!

The things I most like about your proposed model:

• The level of the spy being interrogated impacts the benefit for successfully breaking that spy. Makes sense to balance risk to reward.
• The idea that the prisoner can defect to your side.

The changes that steer away from what I would like to see accomplished in the espionage space:

• Spies having a chance to break out every turn just by passively sitting there would be a nuisance for most players. People who don't want to get into this mini-game would be pestered by the notifications, and many people who might have found the mini-game engaging would adopt a "why bother?" attitude when the spies start escaping.
• However, if there's no possibility of a breakout, the cat-and-mouse game is deprecated. Thus, a civ can proactively send another spy to attempt a breakout--and perhaps find a counterspy laying in wait.
• Removing cells means all spies go somewhere where they can just sit and wait for breakouts to occur (via whatever mechanism escapes are possible). The cells are the vehicle by which someone opts into the mini-game and alerts the other civ that they should consider taking action.
• A promotion to just increase the chance of resisting interrogation is only compelling if it can in some way be turned to the player's advantage, such as by having a chance to free other captives, or kill the interrogator. Most folks are going to choose promotions that plan for success, not failure, and even on failed missions spies don't necessarily get captured.

Things I'm largely neutral or undecided about:

• Whether the outcomes of the interrogations are structured or "loot box". I think the latter might be have some of the fun and excitement of opening a goody hut, but predetermined results are more strategic. Both have value.
• The interrogator being killed as a possible outcome (w/out promotions or other factors).
• A promotion for increasing the chance of capturing spies. The existing counterspy promotions may be sufficient and spies shouldn't be caught with extreme consistency.
• Whether or not the results of the interrogation should be known to the other player. Obviously, a result that cancels all their missions would be noticed, while a result that reveals the location of others spies would be useless if the other civ knew you knew what they know.

I have to bristle a bit whenever complexity is couched in negative terms. Civilization is dogged by way too many shallow systems that does the player the grand favor of ensuring that those systems involve a series of consistent inputs and predictable outputs, sparing them the chore of making decisions. So every system just boils down to improving the means by which something useful can be spammed more efficiently than rivals. There are no tricks or maneuvers or ways to press your luck, because we wouldn't players to get frustrated by the burden of agency.

The ambition behind my model--which admittedly may take more polish to accomplish--is to take what is currently a very flat system and introduce the possibility for bluffs, traps, and risk-taking. You set up a honeypot to snare a spy. You interrogate the spy to find information on the entire spy network, but maybe that spy was sent there because he has the special ability to break out his buddies. Or maybe breaking out is the only mechanism by which a player can kill that pesky counterspy spy that never leaves home.

And for all the players who are't in the mood for that in their particular game, they can just forget about their captives, set-and-forget counterspies, and keep doing what it is they'd rather be doing.

 

[AntSou]

I have to bristle a bit whenever complexity is couched in negative terms. Civilization is dogged by way too many shallow systems that does the player the grand favor of ensuring that Civ's systems involve a series of consistent inputs and predictable outputs, sparing them the chore of making decisions. So every system just boils down to improving the means by which something useful can be spammed more efficiently than other players. There are no tricks or maneuvers or ways to press your luck, because we wouldn't players to get frustrated by the burden of agency.

I get your point and I see how a cat-and-mouse system might be interesting.

But my main issue with your approach is how at odds it would feel with the rest of the game in terms of complexity. You're right that Civ's systems aren't terribly complex, but I see that as being set in stone. So I tend to look at what is the expected complexity by Civ 6 standards and what can be improved upon within those limits. I think being able to interrogate captured spies would improve the game without going over the expected complexity. Same with things like dedications, which are too simplistic even by Civ 6 standards.

I'd expect the kind of system you suggest to appear in a Overhaul mod one or two years from now. These mods tend to increase the complexity of the systems quite a bit, so an espionage system similar to what you suggest wouldn't feel at odds there.

 

[oSiyeza]

Cool, I support the main OP idea. The spy system needs definitely more depth.

Also i would like more cool spy missions, such as blocking ports or airports, detonate nuclear head in silo, intelligence missions that reveal the position of military units, sabotage flood barriers, and so on.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

A Minigame with the spy trying to escape, the interrogatory minigame, border patrol, visa management... there's so many missed opportunities...