"Intoxicating" Resources

[Maksim]

Interesting discussion.

1. For most part of human history, drugs were not banned by anyone - it was only in 20th century that governments started concerning themselves with it. So any governmental meddling seems slightly out of place in a fantasy mod like FFH, which assumes a pseudo-medieval to renaissance world.

2. Mechanically speaking, what would this be like? I can see a building such as an opium den, which could bring in money at the cost of unhealthiness in that particular city. Do we need really need a new resource, or would reagents and incense cover this? I'm inclined to say "no, we don't want to have it as a separate resource" because that way you over-specialize the resources.

So, my suggestion would be:

---
Building: Opium Den
Requires: Either Reagents or Incense
Available at: Medicine (?)
Effects: +25% gold, +2 unhealthy
---

 

[MagisterCultuum]

You could still make Overcouncil votes that ban Drug use, right?

 

[Alzara]

Yeah I think buildings would be the best way to tackle this. The OO could have a unique one for their fishy practises (maybe even requiring a fish resource lol). Or possibly giving a cumulative benefit for each fish resource (like a harbour), with cumulative unhealthiness?

I think that order and the overcouncil COULD have problems with intoxicants, though it does make sense that many civs would not be bothered by their usage due to the era.

I agree with Motenart also. I think that narcotics add a dark undertone to any setting, including that of a dark fantasy setting.

Also I'm still excited that this could be an effective utilisation of the crime rate system!

Al

 

[Dora190]

Its an interesting idea, but the devil will be in the implementation. Apart from a little flavour, what would it achieve other an increase in crime rate? for this to be worth the candle I think you need to:

Add the resource
Add overcouncil/undercouncil resolutions
Add modifiers to the leaders for producing
Add effects -production, less unhappiness, drugs don't make the population happier, they just arn't as unhappy (cause they're stoned).
Add events that go with it
Adjust the civics to slot them in.
Add promotions to units (addicted? reduces combat values? of course it could be a prerequisite for some units, like the berserker and Assassin to name two)?

perhaps create a drug caravan (like a merchant but you build it an dump in on another players city. Which can cause unrest/unhealth et al.

Of course it would give a nation a cassus belli for war...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Actually, it would probably make sense for Drugs to cause long-term unhappiness and short term happiness or less unhappiness. Using drugs would make your people dependent, so when you lose your source you are worse off than if you had never had the resource (or however it is implemented)

 

[Mailbox]

Actually, it would probably make sense for Drugs to cause long-term unhappiness and short term happiness or less unhappiness. Using drugs would make your people dependent, so when you lose your source you are worse off than if you had never had the resource (or however it is implemented)

I like this idea, say a "drug house" gives + 2 happy with a drug and + 3 unhappy if you lose it. This would make protecting drug resources vital if you're using them.

 

[TheJopa]

I like this idea, say a "drug house" gives + 2 happy with a drug and + 3 unhappy if you lose it. This would make protecting drug resources vital if you're using them.

I kinnda like the idea of making you dependent on the luxury. So you could threaten other civs to deprive them of drug resources if they don't obey you.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

Lotus Flowers...
+5 happy
-? production
(the lotus eaters... )

 

[Alzara]

Hmm nice idea with the addiction. Although realistically, you'd want the unhapiness resulting from the loss of the resource to fade slowly over time as your population "gets over" the loss of their addiction.

I still think that the best way to approach this (not taking into account resolutions and crime rate stuff) would be to inculde buildings like the brewery, providing happiness, but unhealthiness and/or the loss of production. These buildings would probably work with some resources present in the game such as reagents.

This would be a good starting point. Further work would be to implement the ideas discussed about resolutions etc

Al

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yeah, I was originally envisioning the happiness penalty being temporary, as given through espionage or events.

 

[Alzara]

It's times like these I consider learning to mod civ. It's a pity I don't have much time on my hands. Most of the spare time I do have when I'm alone is spent PLAYING FfH. Maybe when I have a holiday

Al

 

[El_Duderino]

maksim's idea of it being from a building seems like a good idea to me if it were a unigue building avalable to CoE i think that drug profiteering fits in really well for them, and makes them more of a viable religion to choose

 

[Alzara]

Yes I can see the logic in that. I never have any real incentive to switch to the council of esus. Maybe also making Shadows available ONLY to those who have the CoE state religion.

It would still be good to have general buildings available for all civs.

Al

 

[El_Duderino]

hmm... do i detect sarcasm? Shadows are good as are shadow riders, but they dont in my opinion make up for having no priests or religious bulildings

 

[Alzara]

No sarcasm. Shadows can be built by any civ who has the CoE in a CITY. Seems like it would be fairer to have the CoE state religion to build or upgrade a unit to them.

Al

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don;t think they should be only available to those with the state religion, but requireing the state religion for spells like Mask is probably a good idea. They still start HN, but without the state religion they won't be able to regain it.

I'm actually planning on doubling the number of religious (mostly priest) spells, and requiring the state religion for casting these spells, but not for building priests.

 

[Maksim]

I haven't played with Council Of Esus yet, but the idea of making the "Opium Den" building dependent on either being CoE or being in UnderCouncil definitely seems appropriate.

In which case, I'd argue for a +25% gold, +1 unhealthy - yes, that makes the building more powerful, but it's only for CoE, and they need their toys.