Sanbox
Chieftain
Alright, so I think the Iroquois already have a lot of issues on their own, regardless of their extreme historical inaccuracy. I'm a history major with a concentration in Pre-Columbian and Early North American studies at Wesleyan University in CT to give myself some credibility, though a simple google search should confirm most of this.
We'll start at the beginning--Iroquois is an Algonquian word that basically means evil killer people. This is because the Algonquian (the Micmaq, the Ojibwe, most of the aboriginals in Canada) isn't a nation state: it's a collection of people speaking similar languages. This is similar to how Germans were referred to before the unification of the modern German state in the late 1800s. The Iroquois word for the Five/Six Nation Iroquois is Haudenosaunee.
This word was introduced by the Great Peacemaker, who was NOT Hiawatha. Hiawatha was his principle follower. Moreover, the Five/Six-Nation Iroquois aren't a nation state--at best, one could called them a loose confederacy, but most would argue that what the Great Peacemaker really accomplished was closer to a pact of non-aggression between the nation states, not a pact of unity (though there is some debate about this: Haudenosaunee means Longhouse people, which implies everyone should live together).
No matter what though, here are some more specific Civ issues:
The Iroquois cut down the trees around. The idea of them running through the forest is European racism. Of course, of course, they lived in a far more forested environment than the white colonizers (still though, it's telling that the perspective of the game says that the most interesting thing about the Iroquois is how much they didn't live like Europeans), but they lived in a deforested villages and traveled through clearings and cleared trails when traveling.
If there wasn't anything better for a UA, then this would be fine. Except the biggest thing that makes the Iroquois so interesting, and the reason we think of them as being bloodthirsty, is because they had a concept called the Mourning War. Essentially, the spiritual balance (the Micmaq called it manitou) was not balanced when someone died, for ANY reason (disease was from evil spirits). Thus, they had to be replaced. So they went on Mourning Wars, where they would take an enemy and then make them a captive. Most of the time, they would be ritually tortured to death by the entire village, but if they stood the torture well, joking and taunting their torturers, they were normally cut apart and then eaten by the entire village in a stew to gain his courage. But, sometimes they were taken as replacements, given the dead person's new name, and take on their identity, becoming a member of the community. Of course, when they went on these Mourning Wars, people died. This set off a vicious warlike cycle, one of the causalities being the Huron people who were essentially massacred into becoming a sixth member. THIS, was what the Great Peacemaker solved--he made the Five Nations, which were five tribes of Iroquois agree to giving gifts to repay the dead instead of going to war.
Thus, I think a FAR more useful Iroquois UA would be something along the idea of Prize Ships but with land units. To make it anything higher than a 15% probability would make it far too powerful though, but it does capture the basic idea. It could also be incorporated by keeping the current UA (which is nearly entirely useless by the Industrial Era in most games and only originally useful if one is EXTREMELY lucky) and then changing the UU.
This leads me to my second issue: the Mohawk Warrior. Besides randomly picking one of the Five Nations based only on their name-brand recognition, the Mohawk Warrior depicted uses traditional weapons. These guys got slaughtered en masse by the English. However, the Iroquois warriors DID become fear, especially by the French and their allies in New Canada, when they began using firearms. It would simply make for sense for them to replace the Musketman. Moreover, it achieves historical parity with America's Minuteman, who existed at the same time.
Anyway, that's my thing with the Iroquois. There's more, but that's where I'm at.
Thanks for reading such a long and probably rambling first post!
We'll start at the beginning--Iroquois is an Algonquian word that basically means evil killer people. This is because the Algonquian (the Micmaq, the Ojibwe, most of the aboriginals in Canada) isn't a nation state: it's a collection of people speaking similar languages. This is similar to how Germans were referred to before the unification of the modern German state in the late 1800s. The Iroquois word for the Five/Six Nation Iroquois is Haudenosaunee.
This word was introduced by the Great Peacemaker, who was NOT Hiawatha. Hiawatha was his principle follower. Moreover, the Five/Six-Nation Iroquois aren't a nation state--at best, one could called them a loose confederacy, but most would argue that what the Great Peacemaker really accomplished was closer to a pact of non-aggression between the nation states, not a pact of unity (though there is some debate about this: Haudenosaunee means Longhouse people, which implies everyone should live together).
No matter what though, here are some more specific Civ issues:
The Iroquois cut down the trees around. The idea of them running through the forest is European racism. Of course, of course, they lived in a far more forested environment than the white colonizers (still though, it's telling that the perspective of the game says that the most interesting thing about the Iroquois is how much they didn't live like Europeans), but they lived in a deforested villages and traveled through clearings and cleared trails when traveling.
If there wasn't anything better for a UA, then this would be fine. Except the biggest thing that makes the Iroquois so interesting, and the reason we think of them as being bloodthirsty, is because they had a concept called the Mourning War. Essentially, the spiritual balance (the Micmaq called it manitou) was not balanced when someone died, for ANY reason (disease was from evil spirits). Thus, they had to be replaced. So they went on Mourning Wars, where they would take an enemy and then make them a captive. Most of the time, they would be ritually tortured to death by the entire village, but if they stood the torture well, joking and taunting their torturers, they were normally cut apart and then eaten by the entire village in a stew to gain his courage. But, sometimes they were taken as replacements, given the dead person's new name, and take on their identity, becoming a member of the community. Of course, when they went on these Mourning Wars, people died. This set off a vicious warlike cycle, one of the causalities being the Huron people who were essentially massacred into becoming a sixth member. THIS, was what the Great Peacemaker solved--he made the Five Nations, which were five tribes of Iroquois agree to giving gifts to repay the dead instead of going to war.
Thus, I think a FAR more useful Iroquois UA would be something along the idea of Prize Ships but with land units. To make it anything higher than a 15% probability would make it far too powerful though, but it does capture the basic idea. It could also be incorporated by keeping the current UA (which is nearly entirely useless by the Industrial Era in most games and only originally useful if one is EXTREMELY lucky) and then changing the UU.
This leads me to my second issue: the Mohawk Warrior. Besides randomly picking one of the Five Nations based only on their name-brand recognition, the Mohawk Warrior depicted uses traditional weapons. These guys got slaughtered en masse by the English. However, the Iroquois warriors DID become fear, especially by the French and their allies in New Canada, when they began using firearms. It would simply make for sense for them to replace the Musketman. Moreover, it achieves historical parity with America's Minuteman, who existed at the same time.
Anyway, that's my thing with the Iroquois. There's more, but that's where I'm at.
Thanks for reading such a long and probably rambling first post!
