Is civ 4 worth it?

[Bastian-Bux]

Elephantium frex = for example. Yep, I'm a lazy butt

 

[bobalot]

Don't get Civ IV if its more than $20. I have installed it for the third time and started playing it. I have rediscovered what I realized the first 2 times. It sucks.

It's features blown out of all proportion with hype. If there had never been a Civ franchise and nobody knew Sid Meir, the game would have tanked. The same cannot be said about a game like Starcraft or Warcraft 3.

Civ 3 + Mods = Awesomeness.

 

[sercer88]

personally, I think I can play both, but I can play civ 3 for longer intervals. I think it's because I like civ 4, but I just can't take too much of it at once, I really don't know why.
On the other hand, I just downloaded a really cool mod for civ 4: Rhye's and Fall of Civilization. THAT is an awesome addition to civ 4. In fact, that mod, I can play just as long as I can play civ 3 in one sitting! And I have heard that BtS is a great addition to civ 4...

 

[Bastian-Bux]

Actually the suggestion about Vanilla Civ 4 for <$20 isn't too wrong.

Civ 4 vanilla is nice, and good, but the game only starts to shine once you get the mods in. But once you got into mod playing: WOW.

Thats also the main reason why you should get BtS: to be able to play Fall from Heaven 2 past the 0.23 version. And so on.

Yes, there are some great Civ 3 mods out there. But several of the Civ 4 mods out there, are increasing the worth of Civ 4 + WL + BtS to a point, that they easily replace 3-7 full price games.

Now if you can get Civ 4 with both add ons for less then $50, AND are willing to download 1GB in mods (most currently changed to work with BtS) then you make an incredible nice deal.

 

[T.A JONES]

If I wanted to play fantasy game completly different from civ then civ4 is fine. I like to play civ format though so I play civ3 mods, which is includin Warhammer, Darque's, and a others of high quality in the package.

All of the mods that make civ4 way bigger are fallin victim to MAF or just crap slowdown.The mods that make civ3 bigger can be played bigger maps aswell and are more stream lined with out ever getting crashes.

If you enjoy being a member of the top upper 10% in computer specs then civ4 starts becoming a falirly good deal. Even their there still bugs to sort out yet.

 

[InYourFace90]

I don't like Civ4. It's so different than other civs.

It's features blown out of all proportion with hype. If there had never been a Civ franchise and nobody knew Sid Meir, the game would have tanked. The same cannot be said about a game like Starcraft or Warcraft 3.

That is so true.

 

[denyd]

At this point (I've bought Civ IV), I don't seem to have enough time to play it with XOTM & PBEM, but I suspect once there's a CIV IV Complete with the two (or more??) expansion packs all bundled together (and with the patches pre-installed), I'll probably buy it. I did enjoy the 3-4 games I played when first installed it, but after a system melt-down in April, I haven't gotten around to reinistalling it.

If you like dislike the unit sizing, but want to try the expanded techs, units, improvements & governments you might want to try the Rise & Rule Mod Pack.

 

[AznWarlord]

I downloaded the demo to Civ4, it lagged and I got no terrain. Personally I like the concept of Civ4 with all the complexity, but I'm not really a guy for complex things. I like to stay simple and I like Civ3.

Buy I'd buy Civ4 ASAP if I got a computer that could play it. Any Civ game is worth playing.

 

[Smidlee]

All of the mods that make civ4 way bigger are fallin victim to MAF or just crap slowdown.

Civ4 isn't the only game with MAF. Here what Brad posted at GalCiv 2 Forum:

32-bit gaming is going to come to an end. Not today. Not tomorrow, but a lot sooner than most people think.

That's because no matter how much memory your PC has, no matter how much virtual memory you have, a given process on a 32-bit Windows machine only gets 2 gigabytes of memory (if the OS had been better designed, it would have been 4 gigs but that's another story).

Occasionally you run into people in the forums who say "I got an out of memory error". And for months we couldn't figure it out. We don't have any memory leaks that we know of and the people who reported it had plenty of virtual memory. So what was the deal?

The problem was a basic misunderstanding on how memory in Windows is managed. We (myself included) thought that each process in Windows may only get 2 gigabytes of memory but if it ran out of that memory, it would simply swap to the disk drive. Thus, if a user had a large enough page file, no problem. But that's not how it works. After 2 gigabytes of memory, the system simply won't allocate the process any more memory. It simply fails and you will end up with a crashed game.

There may be more memory given to a program than shown in Windows task manger. Process Explorer gives you better numbers. Huge Civ4 maps plus huge Mods can max the 2 GB limit. BTS has made some improvements as well as Galciv2 to this problem.
(P.S there is a way to increase this 2gb, as noted in another thread, by having Windows run in a smaller space. Of course this could cause performance and stability problems.)

 

[Civinator]

Smidlee, this is an interesting posting. Does this mean, Civ 4 is a gigantic missconstruction, as it reaches the 32-bit-windows-memory border much faster as Civ 3 and isn´t able from construction to handle big maps as proper as Civ 3 on 32-bit machines ?

Is the whole conception of Civ 4 a big error, because the programmers didn´t really know, how memory in 32-bit-windows is managed??

 

[Bastian-Bux]

Actually Windows is a gigantic missconstruction.

Imagine it this way: someone did build a bridge, and this person wasn't the smartest person in the world. So the design of that bridge is clearly lacking, and can only support half the weigth that would be possible. But as the bridge is dearly needed, everybody uses it. But over time, more and more people have to use that bridge, and sooner then later, there is a constant line of people standing in front of the bridge, waiting that they are allowed to pass. Sure, there is still space on the bridge, but the bridge would break if to many people got on it. So everybody has to wait.

Now another guy designs a stage coach. He designs it in a way that would be best for the users. But knowing that the coach has to cross that bridge, he limits the coach in a way that it wont break the bridge. So as long as the coach driver drives slowly over the bridge, everything is fine.

Who do you blame, if the coach driver is driving to fast, or even changes the way the coach works, by removing the limitations?

First you should blame the bridge builder, then you can question the design of the coach. But in the end you can only drive slowly.

PS: Of course, Firaxis did indeed make several mistakes, which produce MAFs. But lets be honest: its unfair to blame them alone for the MAFs.

 

[Civinator]

Actually Windows is a gigantic missconstruction.

Imagine it this way: someone did build a bridge, and this person wasn't the smartest person in the world. So the design of that bridge is clearly lacking, and can only support half the weigth that would be possible. But as the bridge is dearly needed, everybody uses it. But over time, more and more people have to use that bridge, and sooner then later, there is a constant line of people standing in front of the bridge, waiting that they are allowed to pass. Sure, there is still space on the bridge, but the bridge would break if to many people got on it. So everybody has to wait.

Now another guy designs a stage coach. He designs it in a way that would be best for the users. But knowing that the coach has to cross that bridge, he limits the coach in a way that it wont break the bridge. So as long as the coach driver drives slowly over the bridge, everything is fine.

Who do you blame, if the coach driver is driving to fast, or even changes the way the coach works, by removing the limitations?

First you should blame the bridge builder, then you can question the design of the coach. But in the end you can only drive slowly.

PS: Of course, Firaxis did indeed make several mistakes, which produce MAFs. But lets be honest: its unfair to blame them alone for the MAFs.

Yes, but the old Civ 3 coach can pass the rickety "windows"-bridge much faster as the overstyled overwighted Civ 4 limousine with its huge 3d coach-driver-unit on board and therefore is the better construction for that bridge.

 

[Smidlee]

Yes, but the old Civ 3 coach can pass the rickety "windows"-bridge much faster as the overstyled overwighted Civ 4 limousine with its huge 3d coach-driver-unit on board and therefore is the better construction for that bridge.

But Civ3, Galciv 1, Age of Empires 2, Playstation one games,etc., while were great in their time, is in the past while most gamers are playing in the present with games like Company of Heroes, Supreme Commander, Galciv2, Civ4 which of course make more demands on hardware and software. It's some what the same that Civ Revolution is coming out on the PS3 and not PS2 even though there are more people who own PS2. PS2 is the past console while like it or not PS3 is the present one.
What really weigh civ4 down is mods like ViSa which takes advantage of civ4 modding power. Thankfully BTS did help allocate the memory better. Yet like Brad pointed out this will only help in the short term.

P.S as far as is civ4 worth it, I personally haven't yet bought a civ game where I didn't get my money worth even though PTW expansion would be close.

 

[Civinator]

But Civ3, Galciv 1, Age of Empires 2, Playstation one games,etc., while were great in their time, is in the past while most gamers are playing in the present with games like Company of Heroes, Supreme Commander, Galciv2, Civ4 which of course make more demands on hardware and software. It's some what the same that Civ Revolution is coming out on the PS3 and not PS2 even though there are more people who own PS2. PS2 is the past console while like it or not PS3 is the present one.
What really weigh civ4 down is mods like ViSa which takes advantage of civ4 modding power. Thankfully BTS did help allocate the memory better. Yet like Brad pointed out this is only help in the short term.

Yes, but in my eyes it seems the decision by FIRAXIS to flee from Civ 3 to Civ 4 without fixing the bugs they left in Civ 3 (submarine bug, armies, etc.) and adjusting the features they have promised (land arty, precision bombing, functioning corruption off-option etc.) and to let a lot of civers in Civ 3 without any support (no raze-button, etc.) was terrible wrong. Now in Civ 4 you have some of these options, some other interesting stuff, but no more really empires and FIRAXIS seems to forget more and more, that the greatest part of this globe is sea. So this "past" has a lot of advantages, that the "Civ 4 presence" is missing and for alot of civers after careful wight of the pros and contras, this Civ 3 still is the presence.

 

[Smidlee]

I agree that I too was disappointed that some things wasn't fix in civ3. I wish they would release the codes so someone like Blake could improve the AI.

 

[T.A JONES]

Smidlee, this is an interesting posting. Does this mean, Civ 4 is a gigantic missconstruction, as it reaches the 32-bit-windows-memory border much faster as Civ 3 and isn´t able from construction to handle big maps as proper as Civ 3 on 32-bit machines ?

Is the whole conception of Civ 4 a big error, because the programmers didn´t really know, how memory in 32-bit-windows is managed??

WOW! Im I ever glad you had a chance to reply to his post first! :


SMIDLEE SO I guess you feel Civ4 played on the to-small table for fear of todays 'demands' is better then the civ of the "past", which gave empire sized epics on our demand?


Lets just say Civ gameplay was fatatly flawed on this most recent chapter but to be fair to fanbois, it was never Firaxis's fault. I mean how were they suppose to know this would happen (what your ref says) if no other game had expierenced such lucrative 'demands' in the past

 

[Smidlee]

One of the things that made Galciv2 hit this limit wasn't necessary the map size even though that added to the problem. That's also true the ViSa mod which starts out twice the size of a normal 18civ huge maps. (already over 1.6Gb with less than 400mb until MAF). In Galciv2 as the AI continue to designed more ships this allocate more memory to the game until it hit the 2gb limit. Ship design was one of it's best features.
As Brad pointed out if games like Galciv2 are start to hit this limit then 32-bit days are clearly numbered especially when Vista uses even more memory to run a program.

 

[T.A JONES]

One of the things that made Galciv2 hit this limit wasn't necessary the map size even though that added to the problem. That's also true the ViSa mod which starts out twice the size of a normal 18civ huge maps. (already over 1.6Gb with less than 400mb until MAF). In Galciv2 as the AI continue to designed more ships this allocate more memory to the game until it hit the 2gb limit. Ship design was one of it's best features.
As Brad pointed out if games like Galciv2 are start to hit this limit then 32-bit days are clearly numbered especially when Vista uses even more memory to run a program.

Ya I agree if your sayin desiners should have held off on CIv4's frame and other behomoths like it till the 64bit was the majority and not minute minority.
I think the need to focus on making what worked on 32-bit was the biggest reason to stick to expanding/improving CIv3's award winning/ Game of the YEAR formula. THe fact they wanted to showboat graphics instead compromised the entire fanbase.

 

[Smidlee]

Ya I agree if your sayin desiners should have held off on CIv4's frame and other behomoths like it till the 64bit was the majority and not minute minority.

I surely didn't mean that since 64 bit systems have their own problems; like running slower and hotter.
The normal game of civ4 runs fine. I can even run maps bigger than huge as well as more than 18 civs.
Civ4 gave gamers almost an unlimited ability to mod. Yet Windows (32 bit) has limits which can be clearly seen with a mods like ViSa.


I would expect that civ5 (and AC 2) will probably be 64-bit as well as take advantage of dual-core.

 

[OTE_Leader]

Civ 4 was very disappointing for me.

I gave Civ 2 MPGE a 10 (Loved it, recommended it to my friends)
I gave Civ 3 a 10 (Loved it, recommended it to my friends)
I gave Civ 3 Conquests a 10 (Loved it, recommended it to my friends)
I gave Civ 4 a 5 out of 10 (It was ok....different than expected (TOO MUCH HYPE / Propaganda) I would not recommend it to my friends)

I quickly got bored of Civ 4 games and then moved on to the Scenarios....I actually liked the American Revolution Scenario better than the regular Civ 4 games. The Civics were interesting, but got old fast. I did not like the fact that they replace the Attack/Defense Stats with a (Single Power Stat).

In my opinion, all hope is not lost for Civ 4....with all the expansions (i have only played the Original Civ 4) their may yet be hope for it.

I would MUCH Rather play Age of Empires 3 than Civ 4.
I would play Civ 3 Conquests = Age of Empires 3

I have not played Civ 4 for quite some time now. It is possible it has improved since i've played it last (ie. Updates/ Expansions), but I'de rather save my money until they Come out with some sort of CIV 4 Complete before I spend another dollar on Civ 4....

Civ 4 is good in its own right.... but it was not an improvement on what at the time was the best of the best (C3C).