Is it Cheat to reload back to avoid a domination Victory?
- Thread starter bobah083
- Start date
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
For now you should just submit your save game following the turn where you win domination the first time.
You can still continuing playing with the remains of your world but this does not actually increase your recorded victory score. It does increase the internal game score, but after you win nothing else really counts.
For a better idea of how the winners and scores have been acknowledged in the past, please browse down a little further in this forum list and you will find a thread that will lead you to last month's results and this will help you get a better idea of how things have been done.
Thanks for playing.
You can still continuing playing with the remains of your world but this does not actually increase your recorded victory score. It does increase the internal game score, but after you win nothing else really counts.
For a better idea of how the winners and scores have been acknowledged in the past, please browse down a little further in this forum list and you will find a thread that will lead you to last month's results and this will help you get a better idea of how things have been done.
Thanks for playing.
RufRydyr
QSC Map Maker
I think he is asking if it's OK to reload after a domination win, abandon some cities, and then continue on while staying under the domination threshold.
(Download MapStat from the utilities section and it will tell you how many tiles to domination/)
(Download MapStat from the utilities section and it will tell you how many tiles to domination/)
WHY
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
I misunderstood your original question?
Yes it is cheating to reload you game after you trigger domination and then just back up and replay the turns so you can capture more cities just before the end.
This question also emphasizes that you may be new to the Civ3 game and that you need to slow down a bit and read more of the information that is available to you on this web site. The wisdom and value (if any) of your choice to back up and reload have been discussed in other thread in the strategy forum and in the Civ3 War Academy.
Just backing up a few turns to quickly capture more cities and then still trigger domination will do very little to increase you score in the game because the score you see is based on the AVERAGE of all the previous turns in the game. Having a huge jump in territory and population just in the last two or 3 turns of the game will do little to increase you score if you have many previous turns where you were not in control of the game.
Just to clarify things, "Reloading" is a major forbidden thing in almost every form that it might take. Reloading is the process where you backup to any point in time before the most advanced point that you have reached in your game. Any time that you backup in the game to replay events and change the outcomes based on your foreknowledge of events in the game, that would be consider something tht would be against the rules and against the spirit of the game.
As to your question about why Sid Meier included the domination condition in the game:
Sid's exact reasons may be different from this technical answer, but Domination is included in the game to add variety in the choices of how you might play a game. Domination is triggered when you possess more than 2/3rds of the world's usable terrain and more than 2/3rd's of the world's citizen population within your borders. If you wish to score well in the game you must come close to these limits as quickly as possible and then limit your territory while pursuing other elements of victory such as killing all you enemies, amassing cultural power, maintaining a friendly relationship with over half your neighbors, or progressing through the technology advances as quickly as possible.
Yes it is cheating to reload you game after you trigger domination and then just back up and replay the turns so you can capture more cities just before the end.
This question also emphasizes that you may be new to the Civ3 game and that you need to slow down a bit and read more of the information that is available to you on this web site. The wisdom and value (if any) of your choice to back up and reload have been discussed in other thread in the strategy forum and in the Civ3 War Academy.
Just backing up a few turns to quickly capture more cities and then still trigger domination will do very little to increase you score in the game because the score you see is based on the AVERAGE of all the previous turns in the game. Having a huge jump in territory and population just in the last two or 3 turns of the game will do little to increase you score if you have many previous turns where you were not in control of the game.
Just to clarify things, "Reloading" is a major forbidden thing in almost every form that it might take. Reloading is the process where you backup to any point in time before the most advanced point that you have reached in your game. Any time that you backup in the game to replay events and change the outcomes based on your foreknowledge of events in the game, that would be consider something tht would be against the rules and against the spirit of the game.
As to your question about why Sid Meier included the domination condition in the game:
Sid's exact reasons may be different from this technical answer, but Domination is included in the game to add variety in the choices of how you might play a game. Domination is triggered when you possess more than 2/3rds of the world's usable terrain and more than 2/3rd's of the world's citizen population within your borders. If you wish to score well in the game you must come close to these limits as quickly as possible and then limit your territory while pursuing other elements of victory such as killing all you enemies, amassing cultural power, maintaining a friendly relationship with over half your neighbors, or progressing through the technology advances as quickly as possible.
I am sorry, but i meant not to capture more cities in last turn but to abandon some of my own(early captured)cities , take a peace and wait until 2050 year to construct a spaceship (or destroy a babilonians). Because in last position i had much more points than in the beginning my score will continue grow and in 2050 i will have much more points than in current year. I meant i cannot calculate have i 66% of usable terrain or not and i think a World domination is a just some sort of guarantee that nobody can stand a chance against you in any sort of challange!
bobah083,
What you are talking about is what we call 'milking'. Going to the limit of the domination victory (without exceeding it) and then delaying the victory until 2050.
But you are not allowed to reload after you got a domination victory and then abandon a city and continue to delay victory until 2050. There is a little software called MapStat, that you might use to help you avoid 'early domination'.
Click here to download it.
Edit: About your question regarding how we determine the winners, Yes score is currently the way we determine the winners but in the future (currently not determined what future means) there will be a different scoring system which will decrease the influence of the 'milking' in the final score.
What you are talking about is what we call 'milking'. Going to the limit of the domination victory (without exceeding it) and then delaying the victory until 2050.
But you are not allowed to reload after you got a domination victory and then abandon a city and continue to delay victory until 2050. There is a little software called MapStat, that you might use to help you avoid 'early domination'.
Click here to download it.
Edit: About your question regarding how we determine the winners, Yes score is currently the way we determine the winners but in the future (currently not determined what future means) there will be a different scoring system which will decrease the influence of the 'milking' in the final score.
Originally posted by Beest
If you see that pop up then yes you are done. It is not allowed to reload after you see the domination victory flag pop up. It just happened to me this month. I was planning on playing until 2050, but I failed to manage the tile limit and my game ended early.
What Yndy is referning to above is you can avoid this by managing your sphere of influence so that you do not reach the domination threshhold. Using Mapstat is one way to do this. If you find out that you will exceed the domination value , then you disband a city to reduce the number of tiles. You can keep doing this as you approach 2050. This will allow you to get a higher score; for now. This scoring system will change very soon to allow all ways of finishing a game to compare more evenly. Stay tuned for posts on this.
If you see that pop up then yes you are done. It is not allowed to reload after you see the domination victory flag pop up. It just happened to me this month. I was planning on playing until 2050, but I failed to manage the tile limit and my game ended early.
What Yndy is referning to above is you can avoid this by managing your sphere of influence so that you do not reach the domination threshhold. Using Mapstat is one way to do this. If you find out that you will exceed the domination value , then you disband a city to reduce the number of tiles. You can keep doing this as you approach 2050. This will allow you to get a higher score; for now. This scoring system will change very soon to allow all ways of finishing a game to compare more evenly. Stay tuned for posts on this.
Some feel that Mapstat shouldnt be allowed, but thats another debate. 
I did the same this month, planning to milk to a high score than vote for someone else in the Un vote to get another of Phil's covted green ambulances. Dom kicked in when the US lost a city, letting my borders expand and put me over the limit.
I did the same this month, planning to milk to a high score than vote for someone else in the Un vote to get another of Phil's covted green ambulances. Dom kicked in when the US lost a city, letting my borders expand and put me over the limit.
ProPain
King
OUCH! What a disappointing way to win your game. Reminds of an earlier gotm when I was happily conquesting the world and got domination on accident. I wanted to trash the old pc for robbing me of my desired victory.
I think some score must be added to anyone finished before 2050. At least the value if players nation will not grow anymore.
I mean an utility like mapstat can easily calculate current score (in fact it is possible to calculate it by hand from information mapstat provide) - CurrentScore = DifficultyLevel(TerritoryOccupied+ 2*HappyCitizens+ Content Citizens+Specialists).
Then final score must be
FinalScore=(GameScore*TurnsPlayed + CurrentScore* TurnsRemain)/TurnsTotal
where TurnsTotal=540(i think)
It will not add to much score nor to milker nor to conquest loser
I mean an utility like mapstat can easily calculate current score (in fact it is possible to calculate it by hand from information mapstat provide) - CurrentScore = DifficultyLevel(TerritoryOccupied+ 2*HappyCitizens+ Content Citizens+Specialists).
Then final score must be
FinalScore=(GameScore*TurnsPlayed + CurrentScore* TurnsRemain)/TurnsTotal
where TurnsTotal=540(i think)
It will not add to much score nor to milker nor to conquest loser
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
bobah083- Mapstat won't help in figuring out ending score. But there is a calculator created by SirPleb that will allow you to figure this out (if you no longer gain anymore territory, population). I use his calculator as a minimum for what my score will be. It can only increase in almost all cases.
If you are anywhere near close to domination, you'll score more by delaying victory, because of all those turns at the beginning when you had little population and territory. And later in the game you have railroads and access to more luxuries (usually). If you are being crushed and losing territory so that your score is actually decreasing, then yes it may be better to lose faster.
The main fault of the game's scoring system is that it gives a bonus based on years, not turns. For example, in a recent game at the very end I was gaining 18-20 pts/turn, but was only losing out on 4 pts/turn of the early win bonus for each year I put off victory. At the highest point around the 15-1600's I was gaining 58-60 pts/turn and losing 20 pts/turn in the early win bonus. I was maxed out in population/happiness probably around this time, but my score was still going up because of the average. The other main faults of the scoring system is that it doesn't take into account map size/land available and victory condition.
If you are anywhere near close to domination, you'll score more by delaying victory, because of all those turns at the beginning when you had little population and territory. And later in the game you have railroads and access to more luxuries (usually). If you are being crushed and losing territory so that your score is actually decreasing, then yes it may be better to lose faster.
The main fault of the game's scoring system is that it gives a bonus based on years, not turns. For example, in a recent game at the very end I was gaining 18-20 pts/turn, but was only losing out on 4 pts/turn of the early win bonus for each year I put off victory. At the highest point around the 15-1600's I was gaining 58-60 pts/turn and losing 20 pts/turn in the early win bonus. I was maxed out in population/happiness probably around this time, but my score was still going up because of the average. The other main faults of the scoring system is that it doesn't take into account map size/land available and victory condition.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
Bob and Bam,
I'd like all of us to try and keep the threads focused on their subjects.
This thread was about if it would be Cheating if your were to reload a game to avoid winning too early by domination and should not shift over to being another general discussion of the flaws or merits of the Firaxis in game scoring system.
Aeson will soon be leading us all to the promised land of Civ3 Game scoring. Until then you both might just prepare your notes and your save file examples of situations that you would like to test in the new scoring system. This will help us all to better test and better understand how the new system will work.
-- cracker
I'd like all of us to try and keep the threads focused on their subjects.
This thread was about if it would be Cheating if your were to reload a game to avoid winning too early by domination and should not shift over to being another general discussion of the flaws or merits of the Firaxis in game scoring system.
Aeson will soon be leading us all to the promised land of Civ3 Game scoring. Until then you both might just prepare your notes and your save file examples of situations that you would like to test in the new scoring system. This will help us all to better test and better understand how the new system will work.
-- cracker
Hmmm... I doubt if this software is necessary for this particular purpose. All the facts are given in the game to figure it out yourself with a piece of pen or a calculator. This is how I do it:
The total number of tiles is given on the basis of map size. Assume there are 6000 tiles. You also know the percentage of land tiles. If the amount of land tiles is 40% (60 % water coverage), the total number of land tiles would be 2400 in this case. Press F11 to see your own total land area. The first four digits represents your number of tiles. Divide this 4-digit number by 2400 (in this particular example). If the result exceeds 0.666666667, you will trigger domination victory the next turn.
You can find out early on what the domination limit is. Multiply 2/3 by the total number of land tiles and there it is.
Nb. I am 99% certain that sea and coastal tiles do not count in the calculation of domination. They are not colored on the minimap for one thing.
Justus II
General Staff
I believe that coastal does count, but sea does not, or something like that, which is one of the factors Mapstat accounts for. I'm sure someone else has the details, but there is one type of tile that is not in the F11 data that is in the domination calculation.
ProPain
King
Also in a recent post that Cracker made in this GOTM forum (Click for link ) he noted the water% aren't exactly 60%/70%/80% but 63%/73%/83%. So if you wanna use pen & paper to estimate domination limit take this into account. Doesn't solve the coastal squares issue, so I will be using in MapStat still.
...........if you're going for a High Scoring Game (MILKer)!!
In GOTM 15, I hit close to the Domination Limit with less than half the game played (we're talking number of turns here).......Mapstat guided me in for approx 300 turns!! (To calculate it manually for 300 turns just isn't practical!)
I think that the Domination Victory is a good idea BUT I think that Firaxis should have built their own "Mapstat" into the out-of-the-box Civ 3. (Are you reading any of this Firaxis?)
As the Bosses (Cracker/Creepster) say: No RELOADING under any circumstances for GOTM.
I also agree that the Scoring system BADLY needs to be modified to make the MILKed game a THING OF THE PAST!! (Unless you're having trouble sleeping at night! )
In GOTM 15, I hit close to the Domination Limit with less than half the game played (we're talking number of turns here).......Mapstat guided me in for approx 300 turns!! (To calculate it manually for 300 turns just isn't practical!)
I think that the Domination Victory is a good idea BUT I think that Firaxis should have built their own "Mapstat" into the out-of-the-box Civ 3. (Are you reading any of this Firaxis?)
As the Bosses (Cracker/Creepster) say: No RELOADING under any circumstances for GOTM.
I also agree that the Scoring system BADLY needs to be modified to make the MILKed game a THING OF THE PAST!! (Unless you're having trouble sleeping at night!
)
