Is Orthus too easy?

[Sarisin]

He should probably start out w/ a respectable amount of experience so that he isn't promoting every time he wins a battle, but really the part about him that is too easy is the AI. He should be leading an army or at the very least a band of marauders, not wandering aimlessly about the country side. He shouldn't be a super difficult unit to kill by himself, but he shouldn't BE by himself. Perhaps the AI in BtS will improve this, or can be improved to affect this.

I agree. In my first .23c game, I was really getting pounded by the raging barbs. I counted 40+ in the boundaries of my two cities. Orthus spawns late, but somewhere else. With all the barbs in my territory, he was an easy kill for an AI civ. In a few turns I noted that Orthus' Axe had changed hands.

Another thing that would improve him is letting him heal (as Gabriel mentioned) and lose interest in pillaging. I have found it very easy to kill him when he is pillaging a farm, for example.

 

[Grey Fox]

Another thing that would improve him is letting him heal (as Gabriel mentioned) and lose interest in pillaging. I have found it very easy to kill him when he is pillaging a farm, for example.

Giving him March would solve this

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Hm... would it be possible to start him with, say, 15 experience points?

 

[Grey Fox]

Hm... would it be possible to start him with, say, 15 experience points?

That would give him 2 promotions, and 2 turns from getting a third.

 

[Sureshot]

actually no xp is better so that he gains xp and levels up for the healing faster earlier on.

march seems the best solution, or increased strength.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

That would give him 2 promotions, and 2 turns from getting a third.

actually no xp is better so that he gains xp and levels up for the healing faster earlier on.

march seems the best solution, or increased strength.

Increased strength will make his promotions more powerful in turn, and thus make it a huge difference between having Orthus spawn next to you and Orthus spawn halfway across the world before coming to you. I dislike this.

March will remove an element of strategy, which I'd prefer to see stay. In any case, I don't like the idea of Orthus getting on a hills/forest next to my capital and picking off my warriors while I try to get macemen to dislodge him.

The reason I'd rather have him start with promotions is that I'd like him to not spike in power so early on. It'd make killing him in the first two turns scarcely easier than killing him later on.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Removing his Hero promotion would probably fix that problem, but that woul be going too far, imo.

 

[Gabriel21]

Removing his Hero promotion would probably fix that problem, but that woul be going too far, imo.

I feel this is a very good idea, so he will not promote so fast. When he arises, I cannot have a comparable hero. I believe his asset is his axe to be able to attack twice per turn.

So let's think about Orthus the non-hero.

 

[Gabriel21]

I agree. In my first .23c game, I was really getting pounded by the raging barbs. I counted 40+ in the boundaries of my two cities.

Due to your comments I expected the same. I was wondering, in .22 (marathon, raging barb option) instantly wave after wave of barbs. Now in .23 with the same options almost no barbs. AND no wolves any more! In .22 hundreds of them, now one or two.

My whole strategy had to be changed I have not training targets any more.

Do you think, the freqency of barbs and of wolves should be much more adjustable, so you can better influence it subjectively? The raging barbs option did not work well IMO.

And why the switch from .22 to .23 changed this so considerably? Always with the same options of course.

 

[vorshlumpf]

How many games are you comparing, Gabriel? Each individual game can have varied experiences with entirely identical game mechanics. That's the nature of FfH and Civ in general.

I haven't noticed a huge change in barbs in my only .23 game so far. As far as I know, the only change to marathon has been the reduction in the frequency of barbarian city spawning.

As for Orthus, I'm one of those that feel he is too easy, so taking away his Hero promotion is not an option as far as I'm concerned. I really like the idea of taking away the Blitz ability of his axe and replacing it with March.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

I think I agree with March > Blitz as well. Not just for Orthus's sake, but for the sake of the person who takes the axe. Blitz on a highly promoted Horse unit (like Rosier or a simple Horseman) can be ridiculous at times, and Blitz is an endgame promotion. It would make the axe much less devastating in the hand of a human player.

I still voted "Fine as he is" though earlier, he's already struck fear into me

 

[Caradoc]

Personally, in larger games I'd like to see more Orthus-like characters (Orthi?) with a variety of abilities and rewards. Perhaps these could be drawn at random from a set according to map size.

 

[Gabriel21]

How many games are you comparing, Gabriel? Each individual game can have varied experiences with entirely identical game mechanics. That's the nature of FfH and Civ in general.

I haven't noticed a huge change in barbs in my only .23 game so far. As far as I know, the only change to marathon has been the reduction in the frequency of barbarian city spawning.

As for Orthus, I'm one of those that feel he is too easy, so taking away his Hero promotion is not an option as far as I'm concerned. I really like the idea of taking away the Blitz ability of his axe and replacing it with March.

Several, Vorschlumpf. But please keep in mind, in one game (my last in .22) there are several hundred of wolves, each square occupied by at least 5 of them, and then in my next (.23) almost no wolf to be found. So I cannot deduct is it the game mechanics or the version.

Esp. the Blitz-option of the axe makes it very valuable for me, so I like it. Getting this option for a hero is not easy, I would say impossible, the only way I know is the axe. Therefore the high value for it being so scarce.

 

[Calavente]

in my 22h game, othus is locked between embers' boundaries and the sea. so he does not move, acumulates a lot of xp. adn declares war on nobody being allied with ember but without ability to cross the territory.

nobody could reach him without declaring war on the clan.
now I can reach him but he have enough xp to have : Combat V, hero attack II and one thing more.
furthermore he is on a forested hill !!! I only have axe (3str + copper weapon) and half a continent to cross. and he will never attack me as I am in the embers territory !! it's embarrassing to have the scourge of civilizations sitting still, with my undefended level 4 scout on the next tile...

when ember culture will grow, a very powerful rampaging orthus will be released ! (but this ember city culture does not seems to grow.)
fear him !

(maybe orthus/barbarian should be allowed to automatically cross the clan's territory/have automatic open border agreement).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I would really like it if instead of the current "peace with Barbs until 50% stronger than second strongest player" the barbarian trait allowed players to conduct diplomacy with the barbarians. That could include negotiating open boarders, trading resources (Although I realize that not having a capital city could cause problems, since currently resources mist be connected to the capital to be tradable), cities, and everything else that they could agree to with anyone else. I would also really like it if you could convince the barbs to focus their attack on one particular enemy. Since they are officially at war with all non barb civs, perhaps the declare war on section could be replaced with a focus attack on part, or perhaps you could tell them which specific cities to attack like you can your permanent allies under "lets discuss something else". As a trade off, the Barbarian state might pressure you into a few wars, but I think that this fits the theme pretty well.

The animation of Sid should probably be replaced with a picture of Orthus, and he should also be officially the leader of the Barbarian State, instead of someone just named "Barbarian." I still like my idea of giving the Barbs some traits like (aggressive/raiders) and extending the Basium/Hyborem death mechanic (the one that makes a civ loose all its traits except fallow) to Orthus, which would fit well with the other changes to the Barbarian trait and State.

 

[Grey Fox]

Well, I think if you got peace with the barbarians you should have Open borders with them as well automatically.

 

[Calavente]

it seems my orthus doesn't....

 

[Grey Fox]

No what I mean is, it's my opinion that they Should have open borders, but they don't. It's not a bug or anything, its just not implemented so they have one.

 

[Calavente]

oki ... understood

 

[icantcmyeye]

the only problem i have, playing on large Pangea map with 14 civs, is that i always get Orthus spawning inside my borders, Acheron just outside, and the sailors dirge just off the coast... i'm not sure how this keeps happening, but maybe its my negative thinking, maybe The Secret was right...