Is there a time when Tradition Opener would be good?

[FrozenKimchi]

Usually in multiplayer, I open with Liberty so that I can play wide.

Now I'm interested in trying tall for the stronger capital and having stronger cities but the slower settlers seem worse against my friends who all play wide and the lack of gold from trading with AIs.

We usually play on small Pangaea or Europe with 3-5 human players and city states, Standard speed.

My preferred civs are Ethiopia, Rome, Mayans, or Arabia.

 

[Tabarnak]

If you use Tradition you should build archers in new cities(free monuments) before making libraries. Use them to bully some cs and rush buy some workers.

Not hard to build 3-4 cities before the turn 40. 4 huge cities under Tradition can easily beat 6 medium Lib cities. Don't underestimate Tradition. Player needs some experience to run it smoothly but this tree can be stronger than Liberty in most cases, trades or not.

The key is to gather some gold from some cs. You can always rush 5-6 CBs with 2 cities around the turn 40 under Tradition and still build the NC before the turn 60.

You can be amazed how much this tree is powerful under right conditions(i.e. close neighbor and/or cs around).

But some civs are more suited under Liberty like Arabia and Mayans. Just make sure to not be rushed when you are pretty weak, i.e. when you expand, at a time when someone can rush you. If you go Liberty, don't bother with Tradition.

People like to go Liberty because it's an easy tree to start with. But once you get the ''right moves'' under Tradition it's hard to play with Liberty again. Some very low hammer starts favourise Lib grantly though. Games with no cs favourise Lib too, but it's not the case for you.

 

[Silverfuturist]

If you use Tradition you should build archers in new cities(free monuments) before making libraries. Use them to bully some cs and rush buy some workers.

Not hard to build 3-4 cities before the turn 40. 4 huge cities under Tradition can easily beat 6 medium Lib cities. Don't underestimate Tradition. Player needs some experience to run it smoothly but this tree can be stronger than Liberty in most cases, trades or not.

The key is to gather some gold from some cs. You can always rush 5-6 CBs with 2 cities around the turn 40 under Tradition and still build the NC before the turn 60.

You can be amazed how much this tree is powerful under right conditions(i.e. close neighbor and/or cs around).

But some civs are more suited under Liberty like Arabia and Mayans. Just make sure to not be rushed when you are pretty weak, i.e. when you expand, at a time when someone can rush you. If you go Liberty, don't bother with Tradition.

People like to go Liberty because it's an easy tree to start with. But once you get the ''right moves'' under Tradition it's hard to play with Liberty again. Some very low hammer starts favourise Lib grantly though. Games with no cs favourise Lib too, but it's not the case for you.

I have been playing Aztecs/tradition with great success lately. And of course, if you are Spain and buying cities early tradition works nicely also... I also have some killer tradition games when I have a petra capital.

One of my gripes with tradition is when the new cities are still growing the production is weak. When you build those archers in the new city, are you doing things like working sheep to get them done faster, then focusing on growth later?

Here is another downside to tradition - with liberty you can usually get religion even without a religious civ, because every city has a shrine... and you can use the free person for a prophet (which also does not increase the great person count.) With tradition 4 shrines might not do it, and those shrines take a long time to build without the liberty prod bonus when cities are small.

 

[Foffaren]

One of my gripes with tradition is when the new cities are still growing the production is weak. When you build those archers in the new city, are you doing things like working sheep to get them done faster, then focusing on growth later?

Here is another downside to tradition - with liberty you can usually get religion even without a religious civ, because every city has a shrine... and you can use the free person for a prophet (which also does not increase the great person count.) With tradition 4 shrines might not do it, and those shrines take a long time to build without the liberty prod bonus when cities are small.

Isn't that the whole point? Whatever you pick you get both positive and negative effects. That's what makes the game replayable. There is no cookie cutter way of playing and always succeding.
I know tradition can be powerful. I'm just not a good enough player to prove it. Others, like Tab and yourself are, have proven it to be quite effective.

 

[Gucumatz]

Bully, bully, bully.

If you get a warrior that turns into a spearman you are in luck - because that relative increase in unit power means you probably can bully the first 1-2 city states you find with that unit alone no problem and get 100-120 gold. Use that gold along with your existing gold to buy another warrior/archer and along with your spearman you will have enough early military power to bully every city state you see [If needed you can build another unit or two as well]

Also - Don't forget to pledge to protect before bullying

Pop growth can be much more powerful and if you have particularly great terrain/defensive terrain it might just be worth traditioning regardless of seeing the rest of the map.

Any civ with a powerful early game UU mean you typically can bully faster/easier [Because of the promotions and/or increased unit strength]. Melee units are always stronger for bullying than ranged units and a Great General (if you have one) also aids in bullying.

 

[sprintonwater]

If you use Tradition you should build archers in new cities(free monuments) before making libraries. Use them to bully some cs and rush buy some workers.

Not hard to build 3-4 cities before the turn 40. 4 huge cities under Tradition can easily beat 6 medium Lib cities. Don't underestimate Tradition. Player needs some experience to run it smoothly but this tree can be stronger than Liberty in most cases, trades or not.

The key is to gather some gold from some cs. You can always rush 5-6 CBs with 2 cities around the turn 40 under Tradition and still build the NC before the turn 60.

You can be amazed how much this tree is powerful under right conditions(i.e. close neighbor and/or cs around).

But some civs are more suited under Liberty like Arabia and Mayans. Just make sure to not be rushed when you are pretty weak, i.e. when you expand, at a time when someone can rush you. If you go Liberty, don't bother with Tradition.

People like to go Liberty because it's an easy tree to start with. But once you get the ''right moves'' under Tradition it's hard to play with Liberty again. Some very low hammer starts favourise Lib grantly though. Games with no cs favourise Lib too, but it's not the case for you.

So I had a go at this in single player on immortal. One thing I had a lot of trouble with was bullying the CS's. I didn't manage to do any early bullying at all and than later on the city states just did their usual unit spam and it became even tougher to bully (obviously the benefit is best early tho).

My opening build was Scout, Monument, Library, Settler in my cap.

So should I maybe have swapped the library and settler do get the second city quicker and then the archer quicker = better chance of bullying? Or do you forget the monument in the cap and just get it free from tradition? Also I wanted the library early because I was playing Rome and rushing iron working.

And lastly what pop would you recomend going for the first settler. I had 4 when I started the first one (I got a ruin for +1 pop) and I had 5 for the second and third.

 

[DarthDooku]

I usually like to open Liberty and Tradition right away to get the culture bonus. This will speed up getting other policies early on. If there are barbarians I will open up Honor. Then you can choose what you need for what situation you are in. I tend to go for Tile Improvments Faster and a worker right away in Liberty. Having built a worker of my own in the very beginning you will have two workers and this will get your capital going very quickly.

 

[kirbdog]

Opening 3 polices just to get a trickle of culture is self-defeating. Sure you'll get your 5th or 6th policy faster, but it'll take longer to get through rationalism and you might not be able to complete a tree before then.