[R&F] It seems like it's better to pass the Great Scientists that give Eurekas

[Leathaface]

On some occasions i've acquired a GS that gives Eurekas only for Isaac Newton or Einstein to be the next GS in line. I've also watched streamers somewhat regularly get burned by taking a GS that gives Eurekas.

I think i'll pass on GS's that provide Eurekas from now on.

 

[ezzlar]

Get the Great Library and you will have the eurekas anyway!

 

[UWHabs]

To me it depends on how competitive the race for scientists are, or what the need for those eureka may be. While Newton is certainly valuable, if the scientist that I get shaves 5 turns off a tech that I need, that can be way more valuable. Of course, often times you get them and the 3 eureka they give are all for techs that you were going to get anyways.

One thing that I've done to help is that I will delay using the scientist until I need them. That way, I naturally give myself a chance at getting whichever eurekas I can get myself, and you can try to steer it yourself towards the ones you might need.

 

[ShakaKhan]

To me it depends on how competitive the race for scientists are.

This. In my standard early-aggression/late infrastructure focused space games, I'll usually have a campus in each of my dozen+ cities, and I'm ramping up GS points fast enough that I would get the next two or three (more expensive) scientists before an AI gets the current one. In such cases, I'd rather get a GS that I'm not going to get the most out of instead of waiting for an AI to finally cycle one out.

For me, the key when getting eureka (and eureka/inspiration) great scientists is to not bulb them right away. Instead, look at all the techs (and civics where applicable) that fall under the two eras that the great scientist covers, and look at the requirements for the eurekas. Satisfy all of them that you can as fast as you can and only then activate the scientist. This way, he'll only hit eurekas that you would have otherwise missed/

 

[Disgustipated]

delay using the scientist until I need them

Very good advice and something I always forget to do. But I worry if I don't use them, I'll just forget. It is frustrating to get eurekas for something you would have already gotten eventually. That said, I won't pass up a scientist that gives 3 eurekas. That's pretty powerful. Just had one in my China game give 3 useful Eurekas. Can't complain.

 

[cvb]

Very good advice and something I always forget to do.

For such occasions I implemented in civ4 a REMINDER functionality (some text coming up after number of turns, going into save-file & restored on reload) ...

But like many others I'm kind of on a general HOLD 'til "the sources" are provided ...

 

[Archon_Wing]

The one that boosts computeris the one I hate the most.

 

[Disgustipated]

Turing. He does give one additional boost, however. I still prefer him over the great engineer that boosts computers. Which is a boost I always get since I try to build all 3 of Potala Palace, Forbidden City, and Big Ben, and sometimes Alhambra.

 

[Softly]

It's not really fair to compare the eureka Great Scientists to Newton or Einstein, which are both far too powerful. Let's instead compare two renaissance great scientists, Emilie Du Chatelet and Galileo Galilei. Du Chatelet triggers 3 eurekas from the Renaissance or Industrial Era, and Galileo gives 250 science for each adj mountain tile. Standard Speed.

Du Chatelet: Assuming you trigger one late renaissance eureka (40% of 660 science) one early industrial eureka (40% of 700 science) and one late industrial era tech (40% of 805 science) you get a total of 866 science. This is a good but not ideal scenario for this great scientist.

Galileo: 3 mountains is pretty standard, 4 is pretty great. This comes out to 750-1000 science.

Seems pretty balanced to me.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

It's not really fair to compare the eureka Great Scientists to Newton or Einstein, which are both far too powerful. Let's instead compare two renaissance great scientists, Emilie Du Chatelet and Galileo Galilei. Du Chatelet triggers 3 eurekas from the Renaissance or Industrial Era, and Galileo gives 250 science for each adj mountain tile. Standard Speed.

Du Chatelet: Assuming you trigger one late renaissance eureka (40% of 660 science) one early industrial eureka (40% of 700 science) and one late industrial era tech (40% of 805 science) you get a total of 866 science. This is a good but not ideal scenario for this great scientist.

Galileo: 3 mountains is pretty standard, 4 is pretty great. This comes out to 750-1000 science.

Seems pretty balanced to me.

I agree with that--think the issue is that the boost ones often give you boosts you were going to get anyway.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Turing. He does give one additional boost, however. I still prefer him over the great engineer that boosts computers. Which is a boost I always get since I try to build all 3 of Potala Palace, Forbidden City, and Big Ben, and sometimes Alhambra.

I would say that too but since the average Great Engineer is bad anyways, I'd say it's par the course.

 

[Softly]

I agree with that--think the issue is that the boost ones often give you boosts you were going to get anyway.

I mean that is why you save the great scientist until you only have left eureka you don't expect to get. Still using Du Chatelet as an example, in the renaissance era you have Gunpowder (build an armory) and Siege Tactics (2 bombards) and in the Industrial Era you have Industrialization (3 workshops), Ballistics (2 forts), Steam Power (2 shipyards) and Sanitation (2 neighborhoods). If I had to guess I would say I hit each of these individual eureaks in less than a quarter of my games so quite easy to get 3 boosts.

 

[Casualty of war]

These Great Scientists are really only good if City States are asking for a bunch of distracting Eurekas. You fulfill the ones that you actually want to do then use the GS to complete the extraneous ones and score a bunch of Envoys. Never pop them immediately or you will likely get machinery right before your third Archer finishes, or something similar.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Then nobody will take them and all your GS points become useless.
Don't overestimate AI's ability to generate Great Person points!

 

[Disgustipated]

body will take them and all your GS points become useless.
Don't overestimate AI's ability to generate Great Person points

Don't underestimate them either. At least with great merchants I see the ai sometimes get around 45 great merchant points a turn. 49 is the highest I've seen, and that's only on King difficulty. Diety will be much higher. Though I find their great scientist point generation to lag significantly behind great merchant point generation. But if Scotland, Korea, Kongo, or Sumeria is in the game, they will generate a lot. Australia as well.

I can't believe you guys would turn down 3 eurekas. That's significantly less time through the tech tree and to victory. Less important if going for culture victory, but you still need computers and radio.

 

[Sostratus]

It's not really fair to compare the eureka Great Scientists to Newton or Einstein, which are both far too powerful.

100%. Getting +20 science from a university under rationalism with both these two recruited is just wrong.
I don't understand why Einstein applies to universities instead of research labs.
Then we would have a very clean progression:
Hypatia: +1 to libraries
Newton: +2 to Universities
Einstein: +4 to research Labs

I still think Einstein is too powerful; +4 is absurd. I would almost rather newton and einstein give a slightly stronger effect to just one campus. Like "This campus produces +6 science (counts for adjacency) and +3 great scientist points. Must be activated on a campus with a university."

I can't believe you guys would turn down 3 eurekas. That's significantly less time through the tech tree and to victory. Less important if going for culture victory, but you still need computers and radio

The only issue as others have mentioned is a lot of eurekas aren't hard to get, and I often get eurekas triggered that i would have gotten anyways. This would be less of an issue if late game eurekas were really heavily great scientist boosted only, and GS's would only pop those techs. There's no 'eureka bank' I can save them in either. Yeah, the best course of action is to wait, but that just isn't very fun. By itself though, 3 eurekas is definitely very strong as a passive effect for just having campuses around.

 

[Lord Lakely]

It wouldn't make sense to not let Hypatia, Newton and Einstein be OP. They were fairly OP irl as well.

 

[kb27787]

You mean your game lasts long enough for Einstein to show up? By that point most players have already won...

Newton is great though. Darwin is pretty nice if you have Ubsunur or Pantanal

 

[Lord Lakely]

You mean your game lasts long enough for Einstein to show up? By that point most players have already won...[1]

[1][citation needed]

 

[Victoria]

It wouldn't make sense to not let Hypatia, Newton and Einstein be OP. They were fairly OP irl as well.

There is no debate around Einstein and Newton but one would query Hypatia's contribution.