Italian Great Leaders

[aaminion00]

Hey I'm making a scenario that'll include a large number of countries from Europe and I need a little help. City lists I can find eventually, and the attributes and leaders shouldn't be too hard either. But the great leaders are a different matter. I'm starting of with Italy, which will represent the Roman Empire and all big countries situated in present day italy up till now. So far the Great Leader list looks like this (Ceaser is the ruler):

Augustus Famous Roman emperor
Anthony Famous Roman general
Hadrian Conqueror of Britian and eastern lands
Garibaldi Industrial age "red-shirt" revolutionary

Who am I missing? Preferrebly I'd want a middle-ages leader and a modern leader (but no Mussolini).

 

[Kennelly]

A medieval/early modern leader?Lorenzo de Medici from Florence or Giovanni della Bande Nere.
A really modern leader besides Garibaldi?I'd recommend Francesco Crispi or Vittorio Emanuele Orlando.

 

[Kentonio]

Why not Mussolini? He may not have been a nice guy but you can hardly overlook him if you representing Italy.

 

[aaminion00]

His arrogance got him run into the ground. He had many blunders. Invading Greece was one of them. Declaering war on England France and Russia was another. Besides for the facts that he built up a strong army and won against inferior opponents, and the fact that he startied up a blur of "New Roman Empire" patriotism, what did he do?

Significant? Of course. Succesful? Not really.

Kenelly, a quick civilopedia entry wouldn't hurt

 

[Kentonio]

Is success a real prerequisite however?

 

[jack merchant]

I'd include Cavour, prime minister to King Vittorio Emanuele of Piemonte in the middle of the 19th century. Cavour is widely credited with engineering the unification of Italy.

 

[Benderino]

Macchiavelli?

 

[Porphyrogenitos]

What about that guy Maximus from Gladiator...

No seriously, Cosimo de Medici (creator of Medici power), Doge Dandolo (4th Crusade), Giustiniani (present at Constantinople in 1453), Lodovico Sforza (Duke of Milan).

Aeneas (semi-mythical), Trajan, Vespasian, Agrippa.

Also, how about a few influential Popes? Urban II, Leo X, Gregory the Great, Pius II etc

Also, keep in mind that great leaders can hurry wonders so you may want to include influential Italian personas of non-political/non-military stature. Leonardo da Vinci, Dante, Michelangelo (the Sistine Chapel could not be built without him!!), Christopher Colombus, Manzoni, Boccacio, Manzetti etc

 

[aaminion00]

Augustus
Anthony
Hadrian
Trajan
Vespasian
Agrippa
Doge Dandolo
Giustiniani
Dante
Cosimo de Medici
Lorenzo de Medici
Michelangelo
Leonardo da Vinci
Giovanni della Bande Nere
Garibaldi
Cavour
Francesco Crispi
Vittorio Emanuele Orlando


By far the largest leader list in PTW. And that's without the popes mentioned and Mazoni, Boccacio, and Manzetti.

Reason?

I just don't know where they fit in in the list. The list initself isn't 100% chronoligical but it fits roughly. At least I hope it does.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Hadrian was a Spaniard BTW.

 

[Porphyrogenitos]

Pope Gregory the Great (590-604)
Pope Urban II (1088-1099)
Pope Pius II (1458-1464)
Poep Leo X (1513-1521)

Manzoni (medieval writer, wrote the first Italian novel The Betrothed )

Boccacio (same as Manzoni, great poet, wrote The Decameron which influenced Chaucer's Canterbury Tales)

Manzetti (inventor of the telephone, without him no Internet!!!)

 

[Porphyrogenitos]

Originally posted by calgacus
Hadrian was a Spaniard BTW.

Well yes but he served the Roman Empire more so than Spain. Also the Spanish don't include him in their hero lists...

 

[Pangur Bán]

Urban II was a Frechman, born at Eudes de Lagery.

But does being a Pope qualify him as an "Italian" leader?

BTW, let me add two Italian popes, Gregory VII and Innocent III.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Porphyrogenitos


Well yes but he served the Roman Empire more so than Spain. Also the Spanish don't include him in their hero lists...

Yeah, but the list is for Italians, not Romans. Roman civilization eventually included the whole Med.

Why not add Justinian to the list

 

[aaminion00]

Originally posted by calgacus
Hadrian was a Spaniard BTW.

Really? I was unaware, I'll take him off then.

Originally posted by Porphyrogenitos
Pope Gregory the Great (590-604)
Pope Urban II (1088-1099)
Pope Pius II (1458-1464)
Poep Leo X (1513-1521)

Manzoni (medieval writer, wrote the first Italian novel The Betrothed )

Boccacio (same as Manzoni, great poet, wrote The Decameron which influenced Chaucer's Canterbury Tales)

Manzetti (inventor of the telephone, without him no Internet!!!)

Augustus
Trajan
Vespasian
Marius
Scipio
Claudius
Agrippa
Pope Gregory the Great
Doge Dandolo
Giustiniani
Pope Urban II
Manzoni
Boccacio
Dante
Cosimo de Medici
Lorenzo de Medici
Pope Pius II
Pope Leo X
Michelangelo
Leonardo da Vinci
Giovanni della Bande Nere
Garibaldi
Cavour
Francesco Crispi
Manzetti
Vittorio Emanuele Orlando
There we go?

Changed it around in light of last few posts

Also, while this is an "Italian" civilization, and not a Roman one, I look at it as more of a continuation of the Roman civ, Rome being the ancient phase. However, if gathering Roman leaders I'm thinking of the Romans who would be considered Italians if they were born today (location, descendants)

 

[Pangur Bán]

Anthony is a mediocre figure. Julius, Marius, Scipio Af., even Pompey the Great would be better. I would add Claudius also.

 

[Porphyrogenitos]

Originally posted by calgacus
Anthony is a mediocre figure. Julius, Marius, Scipio Af., even Pompey the Great would be better. I would add Claudius also.

Hadrian and Pope Urban served Italian interest more so than their respective places of birth. Hadrian ruled the Roman world, yes, but it was centered in Rome (hence Italy), and besides aaminion00 is blanketing Italian peninsular history it seems (Roman & Italian).

As for Antony...he is quite a spicy fellow: Pillaged the library of Pergamon, got it off with Cleopatra, set the Roman world alight with yet another civil war, punched the Parthians in the face...come on give him a go.

Justinian never set foot in Italy, and anyway his imprint was left on Byzantium (he was also of Thracian extraction and spoke this tongue till his death).

Oh yes, and the Popes did influence Italian history (look at all the wars they got into with the Italian city states).

Of course please feel free to disagree...you always do.

 

[Xen]

A)Hadrian was born in Rome, but raised in spain, therefore he is Roman

B)Rome may be located in Italy, but there is a BIG difference in the Roman state and the first stirrings of an Italian state during the middle ages

 

[Xen]

and for those whom are skepticle of the stirrinds of an Italian state during the middle ages; the kingdom of the two sicillies(alright they hardley count as Italian... ), the papal states, and the indipendent Italian states

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Xen
A)Hadrian was born in Rome, but raised in spain, therefore he is Roman

B)Rome may be located in Italy, but there is a BIG difference in the Roman state and the first stirrings of an Italian state during the middle ages

Hadrian born at Rome?

Never heards that before! What's your evidence?