Its Boring

the well known fact that new software is always built to use up as many resources as it can possibly find.
While true, that doesn't give it a pass from criticism. This trend won't change unless consumers push back against it.

I know that I, personally, am much less willing to accept delays than I was 10 years ago. (as judged by trying to play console games I enjoyed 10 years ago and being totally unable to tolerate the delays)
 
I think the game also doesn't have much in terms of spreading things out over threads, so it doesn't really use all the new multiple core based processing power. That slows it down a lot too.

And besides AI turns taking long, 1UPT also makes it feel much slower on your own turn, having to handle every single unit every single turn, oh and now it's forcing me to deal with a unit again that's all out of movement points. Great!
 
Enjoying my game so far. I still get the just one more turn syndrome and find it hard to stop at certain points. It does drag on a bit in the later game. But of course Civ 5 also had this problem. It does get a little boring once your victory is all but inevitable.

Perhaps my memory is a bit fuzzy, but Civ4 seemed to provide more challenge in the later game. I remember having to move against certain civs that were getting close to 50% land area. Iirc, domination was at 52%? Something like that. Which brings up a good point that Civ6 should have a domination victory condition. I can almost see the reason for not having it in Civ5 due to punishment for making large empires, but why not introduce Domination victory back in Civ6? I see no reason not to. Back to Civ4, I do remember certain civilizations posing threats in the later stages of the game especially if they gobbled up other Civs through the vassal system (which while not perfect, I liked it overall and wouldn't mind it being in Civ6). It didn't happen every game, I quickly learned it's best to knock down the leader before they get too strong. Otherwise it's too late. Civ6 and Civ5 lack this type of late game challenge, and they suffer for it.
 
Enjoying my game so far. I still get the just one more turn syndrome and find it hard to stop at certain points. It does drag on a bit in the later game. But of course Civ 5 also had this problem. It does get a little boring once your victory is all but inevitable.

Perhaps my memory is a bit fuzzy, but Civ4 seemed to provide more challenge in the later game. I remember having to move against certain civs that were getting close to 50% land area. Iirc, domination was at 52%? Something like that. Which brings up a good point that Civ6 should have a domination victory condition. I can almost see the reason for not having it in Civ5 due to punishment for making large empires, but why not introduce Domination victory back in Civ6? I see no reason not to. Back to Civ4, I do remember certain civilizations posing threats in the later stages of the game especially if they gobbled up other Civs through the vassal system (which while not perfect, I liked it overall and wouldn't mind it being in Civ6). It didn't happen every game, I quickly learned it's best to knock down the leader before they get too strong. Otherwise it's too late. Civ6 and Civ5 lack this type of late game challenge, and they suffer for it.
What Civ 6 should really have is conquest victory, like Civ IV. Domination as it is in Civ 6 is way too easy. With cultural borders so weak compared to Civ IV, there is no obstruction to marching a bunch of units right up to the capitols and taking them out in a couple turns.
 
there is no obstruction to marching a bunch of units right up to the capitols and taking them out in a couple turns.
Well, there is the assortment of enemy units, city fire, and encampment fire. But if you really outclass the enemy so much, there isn't much point in forcing the game to drag out.
 
I haven't played for 2 months and decided to give Australia a shot. Two hours later, I still think that Civ 6 is not a good game. Playing this game, I just realized:

1. Why can't I still not save the settings for the map after 6 months???
2. Why can't I generate a new map without going to the main menu??

Yes, these are minor points. But those show that Firaxis is doing basically nothing to improve this game. And this is really annoying! All they do is releasing scenarios and some OP civs, instead of fixing their game.

Major gameplay issues in my oppinion:

3. I really don't like that the maps are all balanced now. In 4, you really had a great start with a neat production city. In 5, you went for the Salt or a Spain Eldora start. Unbalanced? Who cares! It was fun! 6 is just this multiplayerish "every start is basically the same" approach. That's why there are nearly no save games out there with great starts. Because it doesn't matter. In 5, I restarted 10, 20 times to get a good start. And that was fun! If you want balanced, go for the balanced start option.
4. Early game is still the "all-out-war" approach. I was playing islands with Australia, I did nothing to offend anyone (no forward settling etc) and ALL the AI declared war on the same turn. This is so much BS, it's hard to describe.
5. All the basic game system are overly complex and difficult to follow. As Australia, you obviously need to look after the appeal of the tiles. To do that, you need to check lenses. This is something that was never necessary in early games. You should always be able to see everything on the main screen. And not hidden somewhere else. There is way too much micromanagement in this game for no reason at all. It's not like it is additional fun..
6. The Eurekas are THE WORST THING EVER INVENTED IN THIS SERIES. They dictate your game. You always need to follow your railroad tracks, basically doing the same things over and over again. Kill something with a Slinger. Kill 3 Barbs. Build this. Build that. Oh and please never ever try something unusual, because Eurekas will seriously try to prevent you from doing that.
7. The civic tree is still incredibly boring and also brings no additional fun to the game. Civ 5 social policies were so much better.

Can't think of anything else at the moment. It's just.. no fun.
 
6. The Eurekas are THE WORST THING EVER INVENTED IN THIS SERIES. They dictate your game. You always need to follow your railroad tracks, basically doing the same things over and over again. Kill something with a Slinger. Kill 3 Barbs. Build this. Build that. Oh and please never ever try something unusual, because Eurekas will seriously try to prevent you from doing that.
You do know that paying half price for something you aren't going to use is a bad deal, right? And a lot of times, the cost of a Eureka simply isn't worth the research you save?
 
Well, there is the assortment of enemy units, city fire, and encampment fire. But if you really outclass the enemy so much, there isn't much point in forcing the game to drag out.
Very few enemy units really, keeping you from the border of capitols, certainly no cultural border. The city fire and encampment fire doesn't start until you declare war, which you don't do until you get those units in place.
 
If I may disagree, I like some of the new systems.


  1. Balanced starts make my game more fun. Unbalanced starts either make me overpower the AI so much it's boring, or I feel I wasted my time trying to get the best out of my piece of junk for 100 turns. It also leads to a false sense of un-balance between civs when you first try them, just because you have a great or abysmal start.
  2. I think you just had bad luck after all the AI DoW'ed you. I've faced it in, what, 2 games out of dozens? I can avert it by sending delegations, fulfilling some reasonable agendas and keeping a sizeable army and navy. I won't be best friends with everyone, but I don't face that many wars.
  3. I agree there's much micromanagement now, but I can't agree with your example. First, Appeal isn't an overly-complex system, since it's described in the Civilopedia in some detail. And then, a game that presents all the information in a single screen isn't that deep unless it's some kind of puzzle game, or a complete mess of UI. Imagine if in a RPG you had all the inventory, world map, equipment, available magic and skills, current and finished quests, on and on...
  4. Eurekas aren't meant to dictate your whole game. Sometimes it's worth to research it fully if you aren't going to fulfill the eureka in the short term. It'd be almost the same if you tried to fulfill every CS quest.
  5. Separating the tech trees was meant to nerf science from Civ V (which, to be frank, was quite OP). I think it fulfilled its objective.
 
Enjoying my game so far. I still get the just one more turn syndrome and find it hard to stop at certain points. It does drag on a bit in the later game. But of course Civ 5 also had this problem. It does get a little boring once your victory is all but inevitable.

Perhaps my memory is a bit fuzzy, but Civ4 seemed to provide more challenge in the later game. I remember having to move against certain civs that were getting close to 50% land area. Iirc, domination was at 52%? Something like that. Which brings up a good point that Civ6 should have a domination victory condition. I can almost see the reason for not having it in Civ5 due to punishment for making large empires, but why not introduce Domination victory back in Civ6? I see no reason not to. Back to Civ4, I do remember certain civilizations posing threats in the later stages of the game especially if they gobbled up other Civs through the vassal system (which while not perfect, I liked it overall and wouldn't mind it being in Civ6). It didn't happen every game, I quickly learned it's best to knock down the leader before they get too strong. Otherwise it's too late. Civ6 and Civ5 lack this type of late game challenge, and they suffer for it.

AI domination or conquest in civ 4 was extremely rare. Almost all deity pressure came from someone going for culture or space before you could kill them or win one of those yourself, or getting killed early by a warmonger.
 
I haven't played for 2 months and decided to give Australia a shot. Two hours later, I still think that Civ 6 is not a good game. Playing this game, I just realized:

1. Why can't I still not save the settings for the map after 6 months???
2. Why can't I generate a new map without going to the main menu??
This is definitely annoying, I agree. Part of me suspects that the dev team doesn't actually like the 'reroll my start' approach to gameplay (they want people to 'play the map').

3. I really don't like that the maps are all balanced now. In 4, you really had a great start with a neat production city. In 5, you went for the Salt or a Spain Eldora start. Unbalanced? Who cares! It was fun! 6 is just this multiplayerish "every start is basically the same" approach. That's why there are nearly no save games out there with great starts. Because it doesn't matter. In 5, I restarted 10, 20 times to get a good start. And that was fun! If you want balanced, go for the balanced start option.

The maps aren't that balanced, one of the major complaints for Civ 6 for instance is that you need hills near your start for production. Spices are the new salt. But yes, there is no equivalent to Spain.

4. Early game is still the "all-out-war" approach. I was playing islands with Australia, I did nothing to offend anyone (no forward settling etc) and ALL the AI declared war on the same turn. This is so much BS, it's hard to describe.

I haven't had the same experience to that degree. I do agree that they should make befriending civs, at least initially, easier. Perhaps bump the positive from delegation exchanges. Maybe add a 'give a gift' function to make that functionality more obvious, and make the boost last longer. I think the early AI agressiveness is to partially compensate for his later weakness.

5. All the basic game system are overly complex and difficult to follow. As Australia, you obviously need to look after the appeal of the tiles. To do that, you need to check lenses. This is something that was never necessary in early games. You should always be able to see everything on the main screen. And not hidden somewhere else. There is way too much micromanagement in this game for no reason at all. It's not like it is additional fun..
Maximum micromanagement of things like optimum district placement like is really only necessary if you are playing for maximum 'optimization', which is really only useful for top level play. It was the same in Civ 5 - people would always say 'always manually assign citizens, never put your workers on auto since the computer does a worse job', etc. Probably good advice for deity. On Immortal or Emperor (what I normally played in Civ 5), you really didn't need to (and I didn't since I found it annoying).

Having said that, I wouldn't mind if they brought back some of the 'city governor'-esque automation from Civ 4. I.e. manually do things if you want optimize, let the computer half-ass it for you if you don't. Also, I think they should just drop builders completely and just have improvements build from the city build menu. And add friggen production que.
6. The Eurekas are THE WORST THING EVER INVENTED IN THIS SERIES. They dictate your game. You always need to follow your railroad tracks, basically doing the same things over and over again. Kill something with a Slinger. Kill 3 Barbs. Build this. Build that. Oh and please never ever try something unusual, because Eurekas will seriously try to prevent you from doing that.
Sort of the same of above. I mostly ignore a lot of them. Science is easy enough to obtain that putting resources into something I wouldn't do anyways (or delaying something I need now) doesn't seem worth it.
7. The civic tree is still incredibly boring and also brings no additional fun to the game. Civ 5 social policies were so much better.
I like Civ 6 policy system better in that it is more flexible (a lot closer to Civ 4), and avoids the 'railroad tracks' of the Civ 5 social policies. I do think it could be streamlined a good bit more though (reducing/combining the number of policy cards, making them more than just stat boosters, adding some more game effects to the civics tree, etc.)
Can't think of anything else at the moment. It's just.. no fun.
I've played it for a good 200 hours so far, but it's definitely a lot less of a goto than Civ 5 BNW was for me. For me I think it's a combination of the fact that the game mechanics are still pretty similar to Civ 5 BNW (so a lot doesn't feel that new), and the game runs friggin slow on my machine. The former will be hopefully fixed by expansions and mods, the later will have to be fixed by my bank account unfortunately.
 
I've played it for a good 200 hours so far, but it's definitely a lot less of a goto than Civ 5 BNW was for me. For me I think it's a combination of the fact that the game mechanics are still pretty similar to Civ 5 BNW (so a lot doesn't feel that new), and the game runs friggin slow on my machine. The former will be hopefully fixed by expansions and mods, the later will have to be fixed by my bank account unfortunately.

For me the big reason the game feels so dull is that the AIs are wholly devoid of personality. Every AI civ will act the same way towards an early neighbour (i.e. try the rush), the generic interchangeable agendas do nothing to add character and the specific 'we hate you because you aren't doing something we're arbitrarily coded to like' seem forced and have no real implications beyond occasional diplomacy messages (and that's without getting into the AI's inability to recognise context, such as Harald hating landlocked civs - or any civ on pangea maps - for having no navy). Functional AI behaviour doesn't seem to differ consistently between civs - all exhibit the same expansion behaviour, and without UUs of a given type such as cavalry or archers they seem to default to the same mix of unit - or to map well onto their agendas (Roosevelt is as happy to declare war on his continent as anyone, Victoria isn't any more likely than anyone else to expand to other continents, Harald doesn't build particularly large navies, and however much Qin moans about other people building a single Wonder because he doesn't have any, he doesn't prioritise building them himself). The only real axis of variation is that certain civs have stereotyped victory conditions they aim for. Add to that the completely characterless and mostly pointless diplomacy screen itself and no Civ game has ever been as effective at shattering the illusion that you're in a world with other civs as Civ VI.
 
The immersion point is a good one, though I struggle to identify why precisely.

I think I even found Civ 1 more immersive. And I say that a one didn't figure out the settler icon was supposed to be a wagon until years after the fact!
 
I think I would enjoy playing the game if it weren't for two things:
1. The Heurekas which dictate the game. I know they aren't meant to dictate the game but they do. I end up spending lots of time and decision making to get them, and I would much rather just focus on developing the empire in a suitable direction.
2. The policy card system. I really don't enjoy switching around policy cards, but it is needed because of the production boosts to units and builders, and the money saved when upgrading units. You have a lot to win by micromanaging the policy cards, but it ends up beeing a lot of work with no sense of forward motion. You spend time managing production instead of focusing on strategic decisions. In civ 5, at least you had a sense of forward motion each time a new social policy was selected and you chose a direction for the empire.
That said, I really like some things with civ 6. The city districts, the new great people system, and the new city state system are all good improvements in my view.
 
I find the lack of demographics info to be severely distracting from 'immersion', besides the fact that it's much more difficult to judge how big your opponents' armies are, how much they're producing etc.
 
@wil54: What I would try in that situation: lower difficulty level by one or two.
Choose general useful policy cards when establishing a new type of government, NEVER change policy cards.
Ignore Heurekas. It's ok if you get one, because you fulfilled the conditions anyway, but in general: Ignore Heurekas.

(I'll mod my own version of civ6 anyway ... I never expect, that such a version would be produced by a company.
In the first several dozens of turns in civ4 I had just wandering around nomads, collecting yields from the tiles, producing units, developing "basic" techs ... and finally the tech 'settling' :D )
 
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I think I would enjoy playing the game if it weren't for two things:
1. The Heurekas which dictate the game. I know they aren't meant to dictate the game but they do.
Eurekas aren't free; you have to do something to get them. Try looking at how much it actually costs to get them -- I bet you'll find that you don't want to get the Eureka a lot of the time.
 
Eurekas aren't free; you have to do something to get them. Try looking at how much it actually costs to get them -- I bet you'll find that you don't want to get the Eureka a lot of the time.
I guess I would appreciate eurekas more if they made sense from a historical perspective, but I don't think kings and emperors built buildings or founded citys by the ocean in order to boost research. That just wasn't part of the decision making process. Playing civ 6, I find myself trying to keep a barbarian alive until a slinger arrives to kill it off. To me, this doesn't make sense, but is a dumb task needed for keeping the research running smoothly.
 
I guess I would appreciate eurekas more if they made sense from a historical perspective, but I don't think kings and emperors built buildings or founded citys by the ocean in order to boost research. That just wasn't part of the decision making process. Playing civ 6, I find myself trying to keep a barbarian alive until a slinger arrives to kill it off. To me, this doesn't make sense, but is a dumb task needed for keeping the research running smoothly.

You have to realize that we as the player are "breaking the fourth wall", we have experiences of the game system that the people of our fictional empire do not know. The concept isn't that civilizations built cities on the water to get a boost to naval techs, the concept is that as humans migrated to these areas to make a living for themselves, they used their brains to develop tools to help them in their trade. For instance, a fisherman of the ocean would develop better boats for fishing in the ocean, where as a fisherman on rivers or lakes would not need to do so. A similar concept would apply to slingers. As more and more people practice their craft (defined in the game as combat), they are going to learn better ways to improve their weapons.
 
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