Kalos kagathos (an ancient ideal)

[Kyriakos]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalos_kagathos

Kalos kagathos (καλός καγαθό&#962 is an ancient Greek ideal which existed at least since the time of Herodotos who uses the phrase. It was also used by many other notable writers, such as Plato and Aristotle.

It is a phrase which is made up of two terms, kalos (which means good, beautiful) and agathos (that means ethical, virtuous, kind). Together they form the idea that an ideal human being would be both somatically beautiful and have a virtuous world of thought.

While this is sometimes juxtaposed to Socrates, who was known to be very ugly, and himself once argued that he is equally ugly on the inside, the ideal of perfect somatic and mental beauty is a common motif in Greek art. The Greek statues depicting perfect human forms (such as the Lykeios Apollo) present beings which are of ideal beauty and of superior intelligence- Apollo was also the patron God of Logic.

There are numerous examples of figures in ancient Greece who rose to prominence in part due to their very good looks, and then due to their intelligence. Socrates at one of the dialogues introduces Protagoras, the philosopher and grammatician from coastal Macedonia, as one who should be deemed as beautiful, due to having a very refined world of thought.

Although many times in Greek mythology those who strive to be exceedingly beautiful commit hubris, and the Gods destroy them, the ideal was always popular and somatic beauty does not appear to have been largely associated with anything negative at that ancient era (Christianity seems to be heavily influencial in the polemic against beauty of the form, rendering it something almost antagonistic to its own proposed beauty of the mind).

I would have wanted to post some images of statues which have this theme, but sadly almost all are utterly naked (part of the point), so i guess they would not be allowed

So here is a painting of the empress Theodora, who was said to be extremely beautiful, although not really virtuous, given that she started her career as a sexual dancer:

 

[Borachio]

Yes. Unfortunately ideals of beauty are rather culturally determined.

More or less symmetrical features have been sexually selected for because, it is said, they indicate general good health in an individual.

But this is to condemn those whose appearance is less than perfect to second-class status.

I'm not sure this is a good thing.

And to associate beauty with virtue seems highly suspect. Indeed, I'd be inclined to think the reverse is true: those who have to rely on their good natures rather than their appearance are surely likely to have to be more virtuous simply to get through life. No?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Obviously, virtue is not a matter of good looks. Not seeing much to discuss here honestly. Likewise, I'd say virtue is not a matter of bad looks (as Borachio proposed). I'd say that to be virtues is a thing which rests on several factors which need to play right. A web of interdependencies, where good or bad looks can play different roles in different lives with regards to someone's virtue.
The one beautiful person grew a person full of love for her and others out of the appreciation he or she received for his or her beauty. The other got a self-centered prick.
The one ugly person grew self-hatred out of his or her visual deficiency, and eventually hates others. The other ugly person grew a refined sense for the fragility of the human condition coupled with a vibrant sense of compassion.
I have to wonder though - what is a beautiful mind? A mind full of positive energy or something? What is behind a person which has a very positive aura or some such? Well I don't see why having such a mind is supposed to go hand in hand with being virtues. Or why it has to make me particular logical.

It is a nice imagination that everything is so simple and clear. The beautiful with beautiful and great minds. Light .. and dark.
I however think the Greeks were full of it.

 

[Kyriakos]

I think you oversimplified things there, Sill, and in the process merely disfigured the reality of the ideal. Surely it is wrong to claim that whoever was not beautiful somatically was doomed in the ancient Greek world (i already mentioned Socrates in the OP). My point was that the ancient Greek (and to some extent the ancient Roman world too) seemed to have had a healthier approach to somatic beauty than what followed, largely due to Christianity or its prevailing perceptions.

The ideal of kalos kagathos was not a stereotype. An ideal is something to strive for, or to look up to, it does not even have to actually exist in the physical world.

Borachio mentioned a good point as well, that it seems perhaps more likely that people who have it less well to begin with, might tend to develop into more compassionate beings. Nietzsche wrote entire books on the difference of compassion to virtue (mainly attributing the bad ethics of his time to the decadence brought by Christianity).

 

[Terxpahseyton]

You should be happy about the cultural rise of somatic beauty in recent decades then.
Not sure "healthy" is the right term though. I certainly believe it to be healthy to be comfortable with nakedness. I think it would be great if that was cultural custom. Cloths seem to do us mostly apart. However, I don't find much healthiness in a cult of body, nor in the assumption that more beautiful people are the better people. An assumption which didn't die out with the rise Christianity btw.

 

[Kyriakos]

I think we agree on all those points. No one claimed that beautiful people somatically are something "better", insofar as that term would seek to present them as superior in some other, or an overall, aspect. However beauty is positive by itself, and it does seem that by and large in the ancient Greek/Roman world it was seen as something perfect.

Surely no sane, mature person would argue that one with a nice body and a horrible personality is "better" than one with an average body and a good personality. I would not anyway.

Socrates and Aesop are two famous examples of people who were said to have been very ugly in regards to their somatic form, but still played major roles in ancient Greek culture (Socrates even moreso).

I do not think that in the modern world there is really anything close to the ancient ideal. If anything in the modern world there are a thousand facets to how beauty of the form is approached, and virtue is by and large even more ambiguous as a term than it used to be in antiquity. So no, i do not really view modernity's version of hailing somatic beauty as anything really close to the ideal of kalos kagathos