Keep or raze enemy wonder cities?

[Redvane the Fox]

As a relatively lowish level player (Monarch is about my limit right now) I was wondering what the forum's opinion was of razing enemy cities that had wonders built in them.

I normally keep them, especially the useful ones (Pyramids, Sun Tzu) but I'm currently playing on a Pangea map, early the middle ages, and just captured Great Lighthouse that the Romans had built. Given the world type I don't think naval power is going to be much use and the wonder will become redundant in fifty or so turns so should I have destroyed the city denying the Romans the culture?

 

[TheNiceOne]

First, your last sentence shows that you have misunderstood how the culture works:

When the Romans built the GL, they started getting x (I don't remember teh exact number for GL) culture points from it per turn. Those x culture points are both added to the local Roman culture for that city, and to the global Roman culture (the one you see in the histogram when you choose culture).

When you conquered the city, this didn't remove any of the y (lets assume it was 500) culture points that had been added to that city or to global Roman culture. You just stopped the GL from generating any new culture. So instead of getting 400 culture per turn from other cities and 10 culture per turn from this city, they will only get 400 new culture points per turn.

The 500 culture points that the GL has generated over time will always be part of the Roman culture whether you destroy the city or not. Destroying the city doesn't remove any of the old global culture points (The Egyptians are still proud of the Great Library even though it was destroyed more than 2000 years ago), it only removes the local part for that city, which has an effect for culture flipping purposes - which may be a reason to raze it.

So unless you're afraid of a culture flip or that you cannot hold it military, there is no reason to raze it.

 

[pompeynunn]

I wouldn't discount razing the city straight away.

In this instance, I would definitely keep the wonder - 50 turns of The Great Lighthouse may come in useful, you never know whats gonna happen in 10 turns time.

However, for wonders that have gone obsolete, I would consider razing the city, if the city is very large and would take a massive garrison to prevent it from culture flipping. it would depend on how many cities I already have, and whether corruption in the captured city would be an issue too. On balance, I would probably still keep the city (if it has built a wonder, it will probably have other nice buildings built too), but wouldn't discount razing.

 

[Grille]

Note that the GL keeps on collecting culture points for the Romans when they take the city back (either by marching in, culture flipping or donating). Plus, the cultural borders of a re-token city will be put back on the level they used to be (TNO said it all - achieved points will always stay, look on histograph and spot almost destroyed civs with culture) . If you have extremly fears on flips (you sounded like they are way ahead in culture: "denying the Romans the culture"), you might raze GL city and assure your logistics, provided by the surrounding (then evetually neutral) roads.
Razing cities might be a solution to win a conquest victory. You won't care about captured city at all, thus sparing defense units for that city. You can immediately march on.

 

[Moonsinger]

If it's obsolete, I may raze it. Otherwise, I will continuously rush settlers untill the city is reduced to size 1.

 

[Nightfang]

It all depends on my goals, really.

If I am going all out conquest, and already have all the cities I want, I generally will burn the city to the ground, regardless of the wonder housed within its walls. My recent conquest win with China was a good example of this. Once I had all the cities I needed, I just torched it all.

Now, I do not raze everything. Sometimes I will keep a city with a wonder if it is one that will help my cause, like Sun Tzu or Sistine. If warring, Sun Tzu is invaluable, and Sistine is also helpful in war.

If the city has something like the Pyramids and I take the city long after it is really useful, or if I already have granaries everywhere, I just destroy it. By that point in the game, I can probably use the 6-8 slaves more than the wonder.

I would suggest look at your options. Will this wonder be useful for you? Will it be hard to keep the city? Will keeping the city be a burden (corruption, bad placement, etc)? Consider all those, and then click Keep or Raze.

Heh, at worst, you can abandon the city a few turns later.

 

[dragon.jade]

Don't forget that some Wonders CAN be useful for triggering GA!

Suppose you are playing English with a no good UU that you don't even bother to build. Your only way to trigger that much needed GA is to have two wonders meeting your civ's characteristics. In that case, keeping the Great Lighthouse (expansionistic) can be vital!

 

[Nightfang]

I thought you had to actually build the wonder, not just capture it. I always saw it as a bonus for your people's hard work and dedication, not as a bonus for fighting wars.

Can anyone clarify this? Do you have to actually build it, or is capturing enough?

 

[Grille]

IIRC, if you capture a wonder related to your civ's traits, you won't trigger GA instantly. But when you finish any wonder in the future, that captured wonder will provide GA in combination with the new wonder.

 

[Phantom Lord]

Keep if you can, raze if you have to.

Some wonders, like Sun Tzu, are extremly nice to have on an enemy continent (one turn invasion force heal-up in every captured city). Others, like Manhattan Project or outdated ones, don't really matter.

 

[dragon.jade]

Originally posted by Nightfang
Can anyone clarify this? Do you have to actually build it, or is capturing enough?

Conditions for triggering GA by Wonder Building:

1) You mustn't have had your GA yet! (Yes I know, that's quite evident, but it is a condition. LOL!)

2) You must have just completed a Great Wonder (Yes, you actually have to BUILD at least one wonder).

3) You must own Great Wonders whose attributes match both your civilization's characteristics. This match can be met by one unique wonder (such as Great Wall for Chinese) or two Wonders. Those owned Wonders are not necesserily built by your people, you can get them through conquest or city culture flip.

Under those conditions, achieving Shakespeare's Theater, which doesn't have any attribute, can trigger your GA if you captured the appropriate Wonders.

The Internet in PTW is a Wonder that have have characteristics, thus lauching GA for any civilization who didn't get its turn.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Ancient Grudge]

@ nightfang please write more stories

and on topic i would raise the city and then carry on with conquest death!!!!!!!!

 

[Beanzy]

Personally, I raze nearly everything! By the time I become ultra-militaristic (with the advent of Cavalry... or for me Sipahi) I already have more than enough cities to manage a large and prosperous empire. So I just march out and do to my enemies what the Mongols did to Asia! And with PTW, the rubble remains behind, so I can revel in the destruction I brought to bear upon those foolish enough to oppose my dozens and dozens of Sipahi!

 

[Alvin]

I wouldn't want to keep one!

 

[jack merchant]

I just captured an enemy capital containing Smith's -and my income immediately jumped by 110 gpt. That makes it well worth the time and the troops needed to hold it and starve it down.
In the same war, I destroyed the city containing the Manhattan project. Does that mean no-one can build nukes now (haven't got the tech to build them yet, so I can't check) ?

 

[Redvane the Fox]

Thanks for the advice chaps. I did think that wonders went on generating culture for a civ even if they didn't own the wonder (I knew you don't get culture for capturing wonders) - thanks for putting me straight on that.

The city with the GL starved itself to 1pop as it turned out (they just would not be happy and I was a republic so I couldn't pop rush settlers) whilst I carved through the northern Roman territories. Time for a regroup before rushing to military tradition, cavalry and then target = Rome (and the pyramids!)