Keep Your Catapults

[Harv72b]

I was going for a domination victory on a small map (as the Inca) the other night, and what with my limited economy & huge army, stumbled onto something kind of useful. As my army was marching through Egypt and taking city after city, I finished my research on steel and went to upgrade my pretty big stack of catapults to cannon. Well, I was a bit short on funds, and wound up only being able to upgrade about half the stack. So here I am with an army of cavalry, riflemen, cannon, and....catapults!

I had originally intended to just suicidie my catapults into the next city I got to, but changed my mind at the last minute and decided to barrage with them instead. Guess what? A stack of 7 catapults (about half with the barrage I promotion) was just enough to wipe out a city's defenses in one turn, up to 80%. So each city was a rerun of the same thing--walk up to the city walls, let loose with the catapults to ruin the defenses, charge with the cannon to soften up the defenders, and mop up any survivors with the riflemen/cavalry. Worked like a charm, even after the Egyptians starting fielding riflemen of their own.

Just wanted to pass this on. If you can't afford to upgrade everything, keep some catapults around in the mid-game.

 

[fightcancer]

am I to infer that cannons cannot "barrage" whereas catapults can?

 

[weakciv]

they can barrage but wouldnt you rather your higher strength units actually causing damage than just reducing defences?

 

[Crimso]

I've noticed that 'pults get a bonus to their bombardment strength somewhere down the line. In the classical age mine were doing 6% damage to city fortifications, and in the Medieval age they were doing 9%. Does anyone know what tech gives this boost?

 

[fightcancer]

they can barrage but wouldnt you rather your higher strength units actually causing damage than just reducing defences?

Of course. However, the thread title clearly says to save my catapults and the original post implies that cannons can't do what catapults can do. I was merely asking if I was inferring correctly as this claim seems dubious.

 

[Azragaul]

With a game so involved with choices you will always have something else to spend gold on. I think the inference by the poster is that catapults do just as good a job as upgraded cannon/artillery for lowering city defensives.

 

[fightcancer]

gotcha. and that's a good point I hadn't considered.

 

[Harv72b]

Of course. However, the thread title clearly says to save my catapults and the original post implies that cannons can't do what catapults can do. I was merely asking if I was inferring correctly as this claim seems dubious.

I wasn't trying to imply that--obviously, cannon can take down city defenses and will do so more quickly (assuming the same promotions). As the other poster said, though, it's simply a case of using the obsolete catapults against the city defenses (which they are still capable of lowering, given enough catapults) while saving the more powerful cannon to use against the city's defenders. And, at the same time, saving your treasury to use for upgrading direct combat units or rushing key production.

 

[Harv72b]

I've noticed that 'pults get a bonus to their bombardment strength somewhere down the line. In the classical age mine were doing 6% damage to city fortifications, and in the Medieval age they were doing 9%. Does anyone know what tech gives this boost?

I think the difference is that once you start fielding gunpowder units, city walls no longer factor into the defense value. So you catapults are now bombarding the city's culture (which does still give a defensive bonus) vs. the city walls. I guess catapults are more effective against culture than walls?

 

[LordGek]

I've noticed that 'pults get a bonus to their bombardment strength somewhere down the line. In the classical age mine were doing 6% damage to city fortifications, and in the Medieval age they were doing 9%. Does anyone know what tech gives this boost?

Err, actually its simpler than that. These barrage units do a SET PERCENTAGE of damage to the fortifications. In the case of the Catapult its 15% of the total defensive bonus (about 1/6th). This is not to be seen as a straight value (like 60% defense minus the 15% leaves you at 45% defensive bonuses) but a relative value (15% of 60 = 9, so each shot of the catapult takes 9 off the defensive value). Therefore the catapult would suddenly appear to be doing bigger chunks of damage if the initial defensive value was higher (like 12 bites if the initial wall was 80).

 

[Arkalius]

It always takes 7 barrages from non-upgraded catapults to reduce a city's defensive bonus to 0, regardless of what the bonus is. Cannons can do it faster, in 5 barrages, and artillery in 4 I think.

 

[LordGek]

It always takes 7 barrages from non-upgraded catapults to reduce a city's defensive bonus to 0, regardless of what the bonus is. Cannons can do it faster, in 5 barrages, and artillery in 4 I think.

Exactly! Taking that catapult example at 15%, it would take 6.66 (therefore 7) shots to bring any defense down to 0.

 

[Harv72b]

Err, actually its simpler than that. These barrage units do a SET PERCENTAGE of damage to the fortifications. In the case of the Catapult its 15% of the total defensive bonus (about 1/6th). This is not to be seen as a straight value (like 60% defense minus the 15% leaves you at 45% defensive bonuses) but a relative value (15% of 60 = 9, so each shot of the catapult takes 9 off the defensive value). Therefore the catapult would suddenly appear to be doing bigger chunks of damage if the initial defensive value was higher (like 12 bites if the initial wall was 80).

That makes sense, thanks!

 

[Blarg]

Man, if you have 7 catapults PLUS cannon PLUS your troops, you're going to be putting that city in serious danger.

I wouldn't bother upgrading catapults just because upgrades are so expensive, and catapults are quite good however you use them. I'd just be seeking to get rid of the non-upgraded ones first by using them to direct attack and cause area damage when necessary. I've often found this helps weaken a city's defenders very nicely, making my other troops usually get promotions instead of risking getting wiped out. Not only are the enemy troops closer to death, but their attack value is supposedly lowered too. I love sploding my pults on a city, and pulling them back if they survive.

 

[Brutus2]

Funny story about cats...

I wanted to build West Point National Wonder but was not able to. I looked at the civlopedia and see that you must have a level 5 unit to be able to build West Point. I'm thinking, that makes sense. I guess you need veteran retired soldiers to become instructors at West Point right?

So, I start looking through all my combat units and the best I have is level 4. So I'm making a point to use those level 4 units as much as possible, hoping I can get one to level 5. A couple turns later I noticed that West Point was now available but I did not remember getting any units promoted. So, I'm looking through my units trying to find who made level 5 and I notice...hmmm, my catapult has a lot of promotions. My catapult was my first unit to reach level 5!

As I set my capital to build West Point, I started cracking up laughing at the thought of a retired catapult teaching classes at West Point.

Moral of the story: Keeping your catapults is indeed good advice, they may turn out to be your most highly trained units!