Keeping Allies

[sween32]

ARROGANCE OF THE AMERICANS
Deciding that I would have some fun with the politics of the game, I was the Americans for my first official full game (I had played a few before just to see the changes and get the hang of the game). I built up my culture and technology, and a tight freindship with the Iroqios. I traded my military technology for their money, and traded fairly. The Iroqois eventually had the largest Army in the world and I was the most advanced. After being introduced to the Aztecs by my good friend Hiyawatha, the Aztecs looked down upon me and started demanding that I give them free tech's and money. I noticed that they were very small, had barely any money, and the cutest little army. So, I talked to the Iroqios about exterminating them and worked out a deal. I gave them Gunpowder and 35 gold a turn to go to war against the Aztecs. I sat on my pretty little ass and continued to grow my American brain while the Aztecs were assimulated by the massive, overwhelming amounts of Mounted Warriors. The Aztecs tried offering me a peace treaty every turn of their painful fate, but I refused to speak to them. Eventually, the Aztecs were no more. I continued to trade and have peace with my neighbors the Iroqios, when about 5 or 6 turns after the Aztecs had become extinct, the Iroqios attacked Miami and burnt it to the ground. My 3 Horseman garrisoned in every city was, what I thought, a good enough defence for a peaceful civ, but not good enough for 35 Mounted Warriors at once! I tried peace talks but they refused to even listen. The Americans had been fully infultraded and soon the 2 biggest cities in the world (Boston and Washington) were the only ones I had. I had no choice but to retire.

TYRANY OF THE ROMANS
So, for my second game I am the Romans... my favorite Civ of all time. I am going for a military theme here. I was placed on an island only big enough for 4 cities, but with Iron very close to my capitol allowing me to make Legionary ridiculacely soon. I made the 4 cities on my island very successful and was fortunate enough to be able to galley to larger land. There, I made Pompei, which allowed me horses, and started to expand north. As I expanded, I continued to bring Legionary over from the motherland. It didn't take long until I met the Babylonians. They were jerks like the Aztecs and wanted everything for free. I had the power to back myself up so I proceded to tear them a new one. Being a true conquerer, I kept the Babylon cities as I conquered them, leaving 2 Legionaries to garrison every city. But, the production of Legionary became too slow for the Battle. Just as I found iron on the my new Babylon territory and started to get workers to build roads to all my cities, I was attacked by Chinese swordsmen, who had a war alliance deal with Babylon. It didn't take me long to get the Chinese on my side. I left the Chinese and their horde of Swordsmen to dwindle Babylon as I stocked up on Horsemen and Legionary. China's offensive army may be impressive and highly damaging, but my defence is now impenatrable. With my military dominance and their high technology, I would like to keep the peace with the Chinese, but with the Babylons a few rasings from doom I'm afraid the Chinese will come after me. They may not have a chance at even harming me, but they are the only other civ on the continent and I would like to have atleast ONE ally... especially one with such trading benefits.

Anybody have any suggestions on my next move and what I should do to ensure the peace and a partner for future wars?

 

[eyrei]

If you keep a large military, chances are your civ will not be seen as 'easy pickings' by the AI.

 

[sween32]

so, even though i constantly traded and helped the iroqios almost every turn, they decided to kill me just because they had a huge military?

i was the largest and most advanced in the world. you'd think the ai would know that i was a huge advantage for them and the reason why they were so powerful.

oh well. i will have my revenge once the romans meet them with their new friend the chinese.

 

[eyrei]

Always remember, sentimentality is not programmed into the AI. I sometimes forget this myself.

 

[Sam_Catchem]

Yeah..even being peaceful you need to have a huge army. Trading and so forth doesn't totally cut it. The AI tends to look for the weakest civ and invade. Especially, if they are right next door.

 

[sween32]

Well, I'm military minded by nature in these games, but sometimes I want to get away from that and create a successful and respected civ. How are you supposed to become culturally advanced if you are busy building your military too?

In my current game as the Romans, I'm above-average advanced due to my scientific research, but my cities are very low in their buildings and such, except the few on the mother island, because I'm taking the conquerer approach and building my military.

 

[eMarkM]

Yeah, in your American game it was probably a mistake to help make the most powerful civ even more powerful. Giving Gunpowder and an excuse to take over a weak rival means trouble for you in the end.

While I am always willing to trade w/ the most powerful civ on the block, I'm always scheming in my mind on how to take them down. I mean, you have to eventually deal w/ the most powerful if you want to win. I would NEVER give a civ in your situation a unit enhancing tech like Gunpowder. That's just shooting yourself in the foot in the long run. They're polite/gracious now, but if they feel they can overwhelm you militarily at a later time, they will. No matter how nice a guy you were/are. You can never let another civ get too far ahead of you in tech or power game.

Here's a situation in my current Monarch game. I'm the most powerful Egyptians. A close 2nd is Greece, on the other side of the continent. Russia is between us and is the weakest civ on the continent. Russia and Greece are at war, w/ Russia getting the worst of it. I had 5 iron and Russia and Greece both had none. I supplied Russia with iron, and later saltpeter, in their war w/ Greece in order to slow down the Greek advance. I denied Greece iron, though they would have paid dearly for it. Now, I'm happily trading w/ Greece, but I really want to see them weakened, so I don't give them too much. I certainly never give them any strat resource or unit enhancing tech they need, even though they could give me a lot more $$ for it.

The end result was Greece still wiped out Russia, but it took them a long, protracted war. Meanwhile, I solidified my position as strongest. I eventually attacked Greece w/ my superior military might and am currently hammering them in the modern era.

I've had other games where I would MPP with the "weak sister who had precious resource" vs the "strongest who didn't have that resource". Eg, England was most powerful, but had no oil. Their Iroquois neighbors had oil, but were very weak. So I aligned w/ Iroquios in MPP to defend their oil. Not for Iroquois' sake, of course, but for myself. If England attacked Iroquois, they would defeat them easily, expand their empire, gain access to oil, build tanks, and thus lessen my chances of winning. England eventually went to war for the oil, I came into the war and invaded England. I kept the English from the oil, thus from building tanks and I knocked them down a notch or two to take over #1 slot.

Also, having the weak civs as allies is also good for diplo victory. If you have MPP w/ several weaker allies and have defended them in war, they will always go with you in a UN vote. If you ally w/ strong, they're not going to vote for you, they're going to vote for themselves!

These kind of alliances w/ weak civs vs strong make more sense than teaming w/ strongest and making them potentially stronger. They'll eventually just turn on you so it's best to strategize how to weaken them at every opportunity. This doesn't always mean going to war, but just not giving them the choicest tech/resources/lux. The strongest civ is always your enemy and the one you should concentrating your energies on.

e

 

[Paeanblack]

It sounds like the AI Iroquois did exactly what a human player would have done...be opportunistic

You can almost hear the mounted warriors saying "Mmm....cookie" as they sack Miami

 

[Proteus]

In my current Game it´s also the Iroquois who are making trouble.
The first war with them started, when a Frigate of them without warning attacked a Galleon of mine (and, what a pity, was sunk by the poor defenseless Galleon )
Bad Luck for the Iroquoise, that I was technologically more advanced than them. My Ironclads sunk their wooden Ships where they encountered them and after I assembled my Army I was able to raze some of their cities. Three or four times they pled for peace, but I signed the Peace Treaty only when my cities began falling prey to War Weariness