Keishik/Knight rush

[Treso]

Playing as Genghis and not being warmonger is not a optimal strategy.

I would like to know how fast can you start to pop keishiks and what building order.

I start to get keishiks in about turn 100. I used the NC build order.

 

[DaveMcW]

Sign 2-3 research agreements on turn 50.
Put 1 turn into each of the 2 top and 2 bottom tech branches to block them.
Research Trapping + Horseback Riding + Mathematics (Currency if only 2 RAs).
Chivalry on turn 80.

I have done turn 72 on deity by signing RAs before I got Philosophy.

 

[HailoArrows]

Sign 2-3 research agreements on turn 50.
Put 1 turn into each of the 2 top and 2 bottom tech branches to block them.
Research Trapping + Horseback Riding + Mathematics (Currency if only 2 RAs).
Chivalry on turn 80.

I have done turn 72 on deity by signing RAs before I got Philosophy.

How about without the slightly suspect micromanaging of RAs?

 

[Treso]

Please explain what is micromanaging the RAs. Can you choose what are u receiving?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

How about without the slightly suspect micromanaging of RAs?

They took that away, so now it's going to be slightly slower unless you're lucky.

 

[chgrogers]

Please explain what is micromanaging the RAs. Can you choose what are u receiving?

If you research a turn in every other Tech other than the ones you want to have the RA to get you the tech that you want. This significantly increases the chance that you till get the tech you want. It used to be 100% but I think with the patch there is still a chance that you will get any tech.

 

[Treso]

I already got from RA a tech I was researching...

 

[DaveMcW]

To everyone whining about RA unreliability, you're doing it wrong.

I don't know the exact code behind RA's, but I do know how to do a Chivalry rush.

Here is a sample game. New Random Seed is on, so you can reload a few times to see how the random results work.

Masonry, Bronze Working, and Theology are blocked with at least 21 beakers in each. I have reloaded dozens of times and they are NEVER picked.

Sailing, Civil Service, and Currency are available. Sometimes the Sailing->Optics line is picked, and rarely the game will pick the correct 3 techs to complete the Chivalry beeline. Reload the game a few times, hit end turn twice, and see what you get.

Now reload the game. Change research to sailing. Hit end turn twice. You will always get Chivalry, because every other tech is blocked.

 

[Airey]

Sometimes when you (go back 3 more turns) put in Masonry, BW, Theo in different order, the RA will come out differently.

When you leave 2 turns like that, the Chiv will be picked on reload, but not because of every tech is blocked. Besides, you have sailing open.

 

[Bibor]

I recently had "locked" techs gained by RAs. It seems its a die roll now.

EDIT: It seems DaveMcW proved me wrong

 

[iggymnrr]

I think you have to put in a certain percentage into each blocked tech. I have been able to block successfully this way. In the sample theo looks to be blocked with 3 turns of research while having growth.

 

[biohazard72]

IMO the best way to Knight/Keshik rush is to beeline Astronomy first for overseas RAs, then quickly beeline Chivalry (if you've micro'd RAs properly, you can get it with the 2nd RA with the usual early Philosophy AI around turn 95-100). The extra early turns by a direct beeline are probably important for Knights, far less so for the extremely strong Keshiks which remain useful until Combustion is researched.

The timing usually works out that a few cities have finished Colosseums with good production 10-15 turns before picking up Chivalry - build 4-5 Horsemen, upgrade to Keshiks for 150 gold each (financed by selling luxuries. It's fine to sell those luxuries you'll pick up doubles of with your Keshik war). Then declare war, wipe AI army, take lucrative peace deal, repeat.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

Don't forget the Camel Archer rush. I know that they have less movement than Keshiks but Arabia can be a strong and rich Civ if managed well.

For instance, on King level after I got the NC, I beelined currency and could sell multiple luxuries with the bazaar. This funded both RAs to get Chivalry by turn 90 and enough cash to buy 4 camel archers. (Buying an army this size is at least 15 turns quicker than building it and should be taken into account when trying to outpace the AI.) With 2 swordsmen this force could take cities easily as the camel archers can bombard and retreat without taking damage. Once you have one city and are within the enemy's road network it gets even easier.

 

[Bibor]

Don't forget the Camel Archer rush. I know that they have less movement than Keshiks but Arabia can be a strong and rich Civ if managed well.

You're right about Arabia, but Keshiks are just silly. It's not that much about movement from hex X to hex Y but the fact that 1 "shooting hex" (say the flatland that gives range to target city) can be occupied by 5 keshiks on the same turn. Cities fall in literally one or two turns. Arabia is still the stronger civ in my opinion, because it is also perfectly suited for a peaceful game.