Key civ and tech-bombing

[civiijkw]

I'm fairly new to this forum and I'm not sure if I understand the concept of the key civ correctly. The questions below may have already been asked but I couldn't find it.

If the key AI civ (largest?, most powerful?, most advanced?) does not have any techs beyond what it started with then your beaker cost is a based on how many techs you have gained since the start (10 for the first and 32000 each starting around the 155th and going through the 167th). Once you reach the 168th the beaker cost cycle starts over at 10 (for the 168th and 169th) and 22 (for the 170th).

It sounds like if the key civ does have additional techs gained since the start then your beaker cost is reduced to the cost needed for a lesser tech.

Tech-bombing was mentioned on a thread. In that you gift the key civ tech to reduce the beaker cost of your own tech research.

My questions are:

1) Is the reduction one for one? If the AI has gained 20 techs then is your 40th tech based on the research cost that your 20th tech would cost if the AI hadn't gained anything? Alternatively, if you tech-bomb the key civ with 70 additional techs then would the research cost of you 160th tech be reduced to the cost of your 90th tech if you hadn't tech-bombed the key civ?

2) Once you are finished researching your 167th tech, it is actually more expensive to receive the key civ "benefit" of a "lower tech level cost". Can you simply destroy the key civ approaching that point, pay the 32000 beakers for the 167th tech, and then have the 168th tech cost start over at 10?

If the answers are yes then this would seem to be a cheaper method to get to the maximum future tech of 255.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

The basic concept of the Key civ is that the farther ahead of it you are in tech, the more research will cost. The key civ is determined by power ratings. If you are pathetic, your key civ will be white, if you are supreme, it will be purple. Others will know more about this than I do, but research costs will increase with every three tech increase in your tech number against their tech number.

 

[civiijkw]

I see I mis-stated something. I meant that 32000 beakers are needed about the time you get your 167th FUTURE tech (actually your 255th tech). There are still almost 90 future techs to go (much cheaper than before, I once received future techs 168-228 on a single turn - with 253 built-up cities the first 6-8 techs can be done with a single city each, then you get handfuls of techs with two and then three cities each while still having over 200 cities by the time techs are requiring four cities each). I was looking for a way to accelerate getting up to future tech 167. It sounds like tech-bombing the purple civ to reach that point and then eliminating the purple civ is a possible way to go.

Rather than every third tech, I've noticed that the beaker cost of a tech goes up everytime your number of techs goes up (apparently as long as the key civ is not gaining a tech). The only times the costs seem to stay the same are when they cost 32000 beakers (for a dozen or so techs prior to restarting at 10 beakers) and at 10 beakers (for the first two techs on the restart).

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Techs will increase in cost with each new acquired tech, and, unless I am mistaken, the cost will be a multiple of the number of techs you already have (excluding techs you started with). If you have more or less techs than your key civ, that multiple will increase or decrease.

 

[civiijkw]

Restating a post from before (from the scientific output thread) gives:

I did a check on the number of beakers needed for the advances (at least in my version - large map deity level - 4000 BC with no additional advances for the AIs).
1st - 10th: 1x10, 2x11, 3x12, 4x12, 5x12, 6x14, 7x15, 8x15, 9x16, 10x17
11th-20th: 11x17, 12x18, 13x19, 14x20, 15x21, 16x22, 17x22, 18x24, 19x25, 20x33
21st-30th: 21x35, 22x35, 23x35, 24x36, 25x36, 26x36, 27x37, 28x37, 29x37, 30x39
31st-40th: 31x39, 32x39, 33x40, 34x40, 35x40, 36x42, 37x42, 38x42, 39x42, 40x42
41st-50th: 41x42, 42x44, 43x44, 44x44, 45x45, 46x45, 47x45, 48x47, 49x47, 50x47
51st-60th: 51x48, 52x48, 53x48, 54x49, 55x49, 56x49, 57x51, 58x51, 59x51, 60x52
61st-70th: 61x52, 62x52, 63x53, 64x53, 65x53, 66x54, 67x54, 68x54, 69x56, 70x56
71st-80th: 71x56, 72x57, 73x57, 74x57, 75x58, 76x58, 77x58, 78x60, 79x60, 80x60
81st-90th: 81x62, 82x62, 83x62, 84x63, 85x63, 86x63, 87x63, 88x63, 89x63, 90x65
91st-100th:91x65, 92x65, 93x67, 94x67, 95x67, 96x68, 97x68, 98x68, 99x69, 100x69
110: 110x73, 120: 120x79, 130: 130x82, 140: 140x86, 150: 150x91
160: 160x95, 170: 170x100, 180: 180x105, 190: 190x109, 200: 200x112
210: 210x118, 220: 220x121, 230: 230x126, 240: 240x131, 250: 32000
251-260: 32000, 32000, 32000, 32000, 32000, 10, 10, 22, 36, 48

It looks like I'll have to try the numbers again with tech-bombing the purple civ followed by purple civ destruction at future tech 167. That will be a job for another day.

At the moment I'm guessing tech-bombing will significantly help, but not quite as much as I'd hoped.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

In my HOF game I am the purple civ, thus my own key civ, and my 255th tech did not cost me nearly 32,000 beakers; more around 3,500.

 

[civiijkw]

I went throught the techs of a supreme purple civ and found the following (large board - deity level)

Tech (cost)
1(1x10), 2(2x11), 3(3x11), 4(4x12), 5(5x12), 6(6x12), 7(7x12), 8(8x13), 9(9x13), 10(10x14), 11(11x14), 12(12x15), 13(13x15), 14(14x15), 15(15x15), 16(16x16), 17(17x16), 18(18x17), 19(19x17), 20(20x26), and 21 through 255 are at tech count x 26 (i.e. 255 is 255x26 = 6630).
256(10), 257(10), 258(22)

I then went through a non-purple supreme with purple being given tons of tech and found the following
1(1x10), 2(2x9), 3(3x10), 4(4x10), 5(5x11), 6(6x11), 7(7x12), 8(8x12), 9(9x12), 10(10x12), 11(11x12), 12(12x13), 13(13x13), 14(14x14), 15(15x14), 16(16x15), 17(17x15), 18(18x15), 19(19x15), 20(20x24). It then looked like giving enough enough tech to purple would keep the cost at tech count x 24 (i.e. 255 is 255x24 = 6120)

Based on this, it looks like it is easiest to play the purple civ.