Khmer Empire

[History buff33]

Am I the only one who likes this civ? I just think they're a fun little civ to play... withadoubt ny favorite expansion civ! So, what is your opinion on this fine empire, both historcally and in the game?

 

[EvanMeisterX]

Before I got BTS, I had never heard of the Khmers. Never. In the game, I've never actually tried being them, because I was already so used to Germany. I never understood what their UU means by "Targets Mounted units first in combat outside cities". The +1 from the Baray is nicce, though.

 

[mechaerik]

Basically, if the Ballista Jumbo targets a stack OUTSIDE OF A CITY (that's important), then it will attack mounted units first, rather than say, a pike.


The outside of a city requirement means it really isn't very useful.

 

[Tiepolo]

I never understood what their UU means by "Targets Mounted units first in combat outside cities".

Say monty has a stack at your doorstep and you have a bunch of Ballistas next to them. Monty's stack looks like this:

Horse Archer
Jaguar
Jaguar
Jaguar
Axeman
Chariot
Chariot
Spearman (combat II)
Spearman (combat II, City Raider)
Jaguar

If you were to attack with a normal elephant you'd be facing that dreadful spearman and most likely lose. With Ballistas, they will attack the strongest mounted unit in the stack instead of the defender choosing, therefore protecting them from the spearman or pikeman

Crossposted

 

[disturbed1]

I enjoy using the Khmer Empire, the best time i had in a game was with Khmer, where I won a Domination Victory. I am also doing a story right now using the Khmer empire.

 

[Iranon]

I don't like them.

CRE is by far my leat favourite civilian trait (I feel that a lack of culture can usually be played around; the library is the only discounted priority building for me). I don't mind EXP but I don't think it's a powerhouse either.

Ballista Elephants are junk as a UU. Ivory is somewhat rare, and if I actually have it I'd much rather have Hwachas which complement war elephants very nicely.

The additional effect of the Baray isn't bad considering the era it's available but... on a building that only gives health otherwise? For an expansive leader? Meh.

 

[cracked]

Depends what kind of map you play. Expansive is useful on water based maps, and a really good whipping trait. Creative is a good trait generally. Together, they make it easy to get going early. You can work around culture problems of course. Being creative just means you don't have to.

The UU is a bit cak and the ub so so.

 

[Calouste]

Crossposted from the "Tips for obscure units thread":

"
Ballista Elephants are the ultimate unit for active classical/medieval defensive warfare, in combination with the crossbowman. How it works is that if an enemy stack enters your lands it is usually hard to attack because all units have their specfic counters in this era. The crossbowman for example can take on longbowmen and crossbowmen at parity, and will be at an advantage against melee units, but is at a disadvantage against mounted units. The BE's ability to target mounted units in a stack solves this issue though. First you attack a stack with BE's taking out the mounted units, and when they are gone, you can attack the stack with crossbowmen taking out archery units and then siege and melee. Even with a stack that is smaller than the enemy's, you have a decent chance of success, as no unit will defend at odds significantly better than 50% (and even that can be solved with a Catapult or two). With BEs and xbows you're basically set defensively until Gunpowder.

It also all nicely beelines together for the Khmer:
BE's come with Construction, which also gives Catapults and half-price Collosseums. Construction follows from Mathematics, which gives the Khmer UB, and Writing, which gives half-price Libraries. Machinery is a bit more off-target, although you also need Iron Working, which is a prerequisite for Compass, which gives you yet another half-price building.
"

Yes, I like the Khmer. And no, "outside the city" does not mean that the BE is not useful. If you engage in major aggressive warfare with the Khmer before the Renaissance, you're not exactly playing to the strength of the civ and it's leader.

 

[Peteyboy]

A while ago - there was a topic about least favourite civ - now whilst Tokugawa won that pol, I had voted for Khmer - I quite like creative - the way I play it suits me quite well - but long term doesn't offer all that much. Expansive is so-so depends on map.

As for UU - As stated above - Ivory is so uncommon - expensive to get from AI via trade too - so very often useless. UB isn't a game changer either. I have played with them once - and found myself not sure what natural direction to take with them. Not good for military - Not good for pumping out cities - Nothing to write home about full stop. Certainly they offer nothing that you couldn't find better in a different civ.

 

[mechaerik]

Yes, I like the Khmer. And no, "outside the city" does not mean that the BE is not useful. If you engage in major aggressive warfare with the Khmer before the Renaissance, you're not exactly playing to the strength of the civ and it's leader.

I personally love CRE. EXP on the other hand is meh.

Also, it's worth noting that I engage in major aggressive warfare in every era i can.

My big problem with the Ballista Jumbo is that ivory is so damn rare. It's not very often you can find some. Worse, the AI puts a premium for it on trade. And it would be decent if the ability worked in cities as well, but it doesn't. So basically it's the same as the regular jumbo, but slightly more useful outside of cities if your opponent has horsies. I've seen fairly big stacks, but they usually don't come into play until later in the game. Most of my combat is situated in the enemy cities. Really, the Ballista is best when the enemy is invading your territory with a large stack, with some mounted. But that's what siege is for.

 

[Calouste]

A while ago - there was a topic about least favourite civ - now whilst Tokugawa won that pol, I had voted for Khmer - I quite like creative - the way I play it suits me quite well - but long term doesn't offer all that much. Expansive is so-so depends on map.

As for UU - As stated above - Ivory is so uncommon - expensive to get from AI via trade too - so very often useless. UB isn't a game changer either. I have played with them once - and found myself not sure what natural direction to take with them. Not good for military - Not good for pumping out cities - Nothing to write home about full stop. Certainly they offer nothing that you couldn't find better in a different civ.

Khmer is the best civ for vertical growth. Extra health, cheap granaries, extra food from the UB and cheap Theatres and Colloseums to use the culture slider for happiness (and you can trade happiness resources away for health resources if you want to use the culture slider some more).

I have the impression that I get Ivory more often with the Khmer than with other civs. And even if you have to trade for it, you can just trade for it for 10 turns or whatever is enough to get decent number of BEs out. They have a long lifespan, from Construction to Military Tradition, so it is a worthwhile investment.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Solid traits for expansion (top 3), average UB, ridiculously terrible UU...but at least it's still an elephant.

I hate him as an AI though.

 

[Lynxx]

Its one of my favorite civilizations to play. Cant really give a good answer to why, but at least a few good arguments can be made. Posted some in no specific order:

1. Creative is bloody great in the higher difficulty levels. Land is power and you can block it of nicely with creative.

2. Expansionist: Pretty good too. All the cheap buildings aside (good bonus just that) I always tend to have bigger problems getting enough health than happiness in my cities (I chop a lot + HR and many more happy-giving-buildings than health-giving ones are the reason why).

3. As already mentioned the UB and UU lies on the same path and is easily enabled:

It also all nicely beelines together for the Khmer:
BE's come with Construction, which also gives Catapults and half-price Collosseums. Construction follows from Mathematics, which gives the Khmer UB, and Writing, which gives half-price Libraries. Machinery is a bit more off-target, although you also need Iron Working, which is a prerequisite for Compass, which gives you yet another half-price building.

4. UU can be great if you get attacked and have to play defensively (much more likely on higher levels, but if your really good you should not get attacked and then it kinda suck I know...).

5. The starting techs are just bloody great!! Mining everyone knows why. Hunting gives you the ability to research animal husbandry directly if no farm-based resource is near (worker first can actually be good once in a while) and you get archery quickly if needed, again great on higher difficulties.

6. Last but not least you get to play the most alien looking leader there is knowing you must be scaring the out of all the other ai:s.

So lets all go home from work and start playing some civ4 with the khmers!

Edit: apparently some decent swearwords are censored out with .. .nice feature, bad me.

 

[Powerslave]

I'm surprised so many people dislike the Khmer. How else can you get a bonus food tile, before Supermarkets? The UB is great. Certainly, it's a lot better than the Ger, if you end up being isolated.

 

[Antilogic]

I'm surprised so many people dislike the Khmer. How else can you get a bonus food tile, before Supermarkets? The UB is great. Certainly, it's a lot better than the Ger, if you end up being isolated.

Degree of isolation depends on the map you play (I'm a big Pangaea/Hemispheres/Terra player), but I agree--the food bonus is a seriously powerful UB ability.

 

[Slvynn]

I like Khmer Civ, one of my favorite to play, and one of civs i am certainly best with.
REX, then attack.

 

[Molybdeus]

My big problem with the Ballista Jumbo is that ivory is so damn rare.

I've gotten it in 2/3rds of my games I've played as Suryavarman. (Probably 18 or so total.) The important thing to remember is that you're much more likely to get it if you start the game looking for it.

Suryavarman is definitely a love him or hate him leader. If you rely on exceptionally powerful unique units like the Praetorian or Quechua, you will hate him. If you're one of those people who haven't played the Romans since vanilla and prefer flexible leaders that can handle any map type or terrain deficiency and come out the victor, you will love him. He isn't as good as Mehmed, but he is fairly similar in style.

I had a post here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=309561) discussing this a long time ago.

 

[Slvynn]

Also great thing about ballista elephants - and no-one mention it - You attack PREFERRED type of units. That mean, alot success and that is = crazy Experience. In my Emperor huge marathon games, where i use amounts of them whole era or more, i have crazy xp on them, lvl 8 and above.