Knights, Camera, Action!

[DrLaban]

The camel archers also have withdrawal chance, something I almost never see people consider when talking about this UU. I think that's a great addition.

 

[dankok8]

Cataphract ==== ownage. Like I said earlier it's the new Pratoreon.

It's not quite like a new praetorian cuz going from 6 to 8 strength is a 33% increase while going from 10 to 12 is only a 20% increase. Assuming that the loss of CR I promotion for a praetorian is about as bad as the loss of immunity to first strikes for cataphracts, I'd still put the praetorian higher but the cataphract is pretty damn good!!

 

[NaZdReG]

capharacts with flanking 2 survive incredibly well. promote one in the stack with combat 1 and med 1.. get enough exp for med 2 and you have an incredibly durable force.

I got to guilds before the enemy got to either engineering or feudalism. by now they have caught up and I see lbows and knights aplenty.. but my tech raiding and vasselizing of the dutch has left me a tech or two away from curisairs.. which are same strength but with the immunity to first strikes. so continue the onslaught but even better.

NaZ

 

[PanzerEric]

It's not quite like a new praetorian cuz going from 6 to 8 strength is a 33% increase while going from 10 to 12 is only a 20% increase. Assuming that the loss of CR I promotion for a praetorian is about as bad as the loss of immunity to first strikes for cataphracts, I'd still put the praetorian higher but the cataphract is pretty damn good!!

Agreed overall with your sentiment that the Praet is still very dominant for it's time period. However I was looking at Praetorian versus his natural counter the Axeman (8.0 vs 7.5). With humans playing Axeman the Praets are very good but not dominant due to the humans ability to conduct more strategic warfare. However with humans playing Praets then they can be just sick......

With the Cataphract the natural counter is Pikeman (6 strength, plus 100% versus mounted) versus 12 strength for Cataphract. Knights at 10 strenght over time will be gound under the heel of the Cata. Damn War Elephant can definitely be a problem. Macemen (8 str), Longbow (6 str plus first strike capability), Musket (9 str) are not of great concern. Some Musket UU's (can't remeber which one's) have plus 25% against mounted to get 9*(1+0.25)=11.25 str versus Mounted.

Overall the Preat might get the nod since it's an easier tech path to Iron Working than Guilds.

 

[whakojacko]

It's not quite like a new praetorian cuz going from 6 to 8 strength is a 33% increase while going from 10 to 12 is only a 20% increase. Assuming that the loss of CR I promotion for a praetorian is about as bad as the loss of immunity to first strikes for cataphracts, I'd still put the praetorian higher but the cataphract is pretty damn good!!

but praets cost 12.5% more than swordies, whereas cataphracts dont (IIRC). Oh and 2 movement speed makes a huge difference. Yes they cant take CR, but they still rock.

 

[EEE_BOY]

thanks for providing new strategy!

 

[NaZdReG]

Hermit,

if going SE then the pyramids would be automatic. problem here is the civ doesnt start with mining, so chopping the pyramids is not likely. getting mining, BW, pottery by the time you finish the oracle sounds more doable. pre-chopping a 2nd city to set up the forge should still get an engineer before a prophet. if going for a CE rather than an SE the pyramids dont matter as much anyway.

the great spy is too damn useful and you need to go through alpha to get to currency anyway. so might be a good idea to try to grab masonry, build the great wall on the way to the oracle, pre-chop a forge in city #3 while you build the oracle. its a lot to do but if you can get a spy, then an engineer (speed is less important since machinery is not time dependent like the pyramids)

use the spy to catch up tech wise while you do this, and the engineer to pop machinery if you cannot steal it. if you can then just pop him on some tasty wonder.

they were fun to play will, definately will do again. may try to set some of this up and see how far it can get.

NaZ

 

[kniteowl]

I found out the fastest way is to Oracle to MC, assign Engineer, and wait for 34 turns for 1st GE to Bulb Machinery

Then assign 2 Scientist combined with you're Engineer then wait for 22 turns.

If you get a GE you can use him to Light bulb Feudalism if you already have that tech then you can light bulb Guilds. Remember to Delay Maths or you'll lightbulb down the Construction and Engineering tech route.

If you get a GS then just build an Academy in your Capital for Boosted research towards Guilds, I usually get Knights before 1000AD using this strategy on Prince.

Although I've only done it twice and failed to get both horses and Iron on both occasion... Stupid AI culture stealing my horses 1 turn before Guilds...

Now it's only 10turn before I pop a Great Artist from Caste system :S...

 

[Kev]

I don't have BTS yet, so I'm not sure if it would apply, but if I recall correctly a Great Merchant will also bulb machinery.

Would it be possible to hit one of the early "GM" wonders quickly (TOA, Lighthouse, perhaps even Colossus) to get a merchant up in time to make this worthwhile? Again, don't know if it's still the case, but if TOA is still connected to polytheism then it could be an option. GM's are pretty handy overall and can get you some key techs later like civil service and currency as well.... Plus, with caste you can run many of them compared to engineers...

 

[kniteowl]

Great Merchant:

Currency
Banking
Economics
Corporation
Metal Casting
Code of Laws
Mining
Constitution
The Wheel
Alphabet (BTS)
Pottery
Sailing
Paper
Railroad
Industrialism
Monarchy
Civil Service
Guilds
Fascism
Mass Media
Agriculture
Writing
Mathematics
Printing Press
Flight
Machinery

that's alot of techs required before we can get Machinery, infact we'd get Civili Service before we can bulb Machinery in which case We'd be better off researching normally because of the boost to research from the new Civic available with CS.

but I Can see myself Rushing a Market and Assign 2 merchants and an engineer to bulb Guild though of course I'll have to get Monachry & COLs first and still have to ignore Mathematics, ignoring mathematics is painful because they lead to siege weapons.

 

[Kev]

Is that list something new for BTS? I could have SWORN that the Merchant would have bulbed these techs sooner. I mean, don't you NEED machinery for some of the techs listed before it?

 

[Tzu Iop]

Great Merchant:

Currency
Banking
Economics
Corporation
Metal Casting
Code of Laws
Mining
Constitution
The Wheel
Alphabet (BTS)
Pottery
Sailing
Paper
Railroad
Industrialism
Monarchy
Civil Service
Guilds
Fascism
Mass Media
Agriculture
Writing
Mathematics
Printing Press
Flight
Machinery

that's alot of techs required before we can get Machinery, infact we'd get Civili Service before we can bulb Machinery in which case We'd be better off researching normally because of the boost to research from the new Civic available with CS.

but I Can see myself Rushing a Market and Assign 2 merchants and an engineer to bulb Guild though of course I'll have to get Monachry & COLs first and still have to ignore Mathematics, ignoring mathematics is painful because they lead to siege weapons.

Tried something like this back WL, after futurehermit came up with the idea in this thread about a month ago, then with BtS I didn't think of any more.
The stragedy was very simple: Grab CoL early with the oracle or beelining it, use it to generate four GMs, which bulb paper, CS, machinery and guilds. Well executed you can end up having knights before the ai has Longbows (About 200AD) and even against longbows knigths do pretty decent, if promoted right.
But I dropped that stragedy since it left me nearly always with a crippled eco in my core cities.
I now just use a classical beeline with an SE and settling the GS, still having knights early about 700AD. Just taking one enemy instead of two in the GM-Style beeline.

The new AI made the horsepath more viable since the AI dogpiles defenders if you siege a city but with horse unit you can usually take the city before the ai respond to the approaching threat.

 

[kniteowl]

the Difference between WL & BTS is that Aesthetics opens up Literature/Drama and Alphabet has been moved to open up Currency.

So you don't have to run Caste System and just beeline to Currency for Merchants from Markets. I generally don't like to run Caste System before then I'm not Running Slavery for whipping purposes.

Is that list something new for BTS? I could have SWORN that the Merchant would have bulbed these techs sooner. I mean, don't you NEED machinery for some of the techs listed before it?

Those are the techs a Great Person will bulb if those techs are available on you're tech tree to bulb, for more information check on this thread

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140952&highlight=great+people